"Eternally" invisible - blessed potion of invisibility?

[J. J. Marjanen]

I have several times played Samurai in a
multi-user Nethack. Previously I used to
prefer Wizard characters.

Now I have a rather promising Samurai
BUT he has quaffed the ! of invisibility
which was obviously blessed. It is an
essential problem only in shops where
the shopkeepers inform that "invisible
customers are not welcome".

However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again. In my opinion,
*blessed* potions should not work
that way.

[Benjamin Lewis]

I have several times played Samurai in a multi-user Nethack. Previously I
used to prefer Wizard characters.
Now I have a rather promising Samurai BUT he has quaffed the ! of
invisibility which was obviously blessed. It is an essential problem only
in shops where the shopkeepers inform that "invisible customers are not
welcome".
However, I would be pleased to know, whether there is any possibility to
become visible again.

Have you ever seen _The Invisible Man_?

[JH]

Post by J. J. Marjanen
I have several times played Samurai in a
multi-user Nethack. Previously I used to
prefer Wizard characters.
Now I have a rather promising Samurai
BUT he has quaffed the ! of invisibility
which was obviously blessed. It is an
essential problem only in shops where
the shopkeepers inform that "invisible
customers are not welcome".
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again. In my opinion,
*blessed* potions should not work
that way.

As you note, there's only one real downside to being permanently invisible,
and there are a couple of way around this


just a bit of spolier space






























1. wear a mummy wrapping (make sure it's not cursed, or you won't be able
to take it off)
2. or, with teleport and control, you can just pop into the shop, buy the
stuff you want, and teleport out

[Seraphim]

Post by JH
As you note, there's only one real downside to being permanently
invisible, and there are a couple of way around this

There are atleast two.
1) Shopkeepers don't like you
2) Displacement won't work on creatures that don't see invisble.

There is also the fact that if you don't have see invisble then you don't
see your characters @, if your playing on a system with a hard to notice
cursor, then this can be a pain.

[JH]

Post by Seraphim

Post by JH
As you note, there's only one real downside to being permanently
invisible, and there are a couple of way around this

There are atleast two.
1) Shopkeepers don't like you
2) Displacement won't work on creatures that don't see invisble.

but is displacement really that much better? if the monster doesn't have
see invisible, then they're going to miss quite a bit anyway, they'll be
striking at thin air, etc. I see your point, but I don't really know if
it's a big disadvantage, and I almost never have displacement, so I didn't
really think of it

Post by Seraphim
There is also the fact that if you don't have see invisble then you don't
cursor, then this can be a pain.

Ok, good point there, but see invisible (or telepathy + blindness) aren't
too hard to come by

[Seraphim]

Post by JH

Post by Seraphim

Post by JH
As you note, there's only one real downside to being permanently
invisible, and there are a couple of way around this

There are atleast two.
1) Shopkeepers don't like you
2) Displacement won't work on creatures that don't see invisble.

but is displacement really that much better?

Yes, a monster has a lower chance of 'discovering' you with
displacement, and displacement can make you 'appear' two squares away,
compared to one square for invisibility. IIRC if you have displacement
it's possible for a monster to move directly away from you while trying
to attack you, that'll never happen with invisibility.

Post by JH
If the monster doesn't
have see invisible, then they're going to miss quite a bit anyway,
they'll be striking at thin air, etc. I see your point, but I don't
really know if it's a big disadvantage, and I almost never have
displacement, so I didn't really think of it

You realy should try it, displacenemt is great. Oh how I wish
Shimmering DSM was in the game.

Post by JH

Post by Seraphim
There is also the fact that if you don't have see invisble then you
hard to notice cursor, then this can be a pain.

Ok, good point there, but see invisible (or telepathy + blindness)
aren't too hard to come by

Yeah, see invisible is easy enough to come by that I consider this an
annoyance rather then a "real downsiade"

[5parrow]

Post by Seraphim

Post by JH
I see your point, but I don't
really know if it's a big disadvantage, and I almost never have
displacement, so I didn't really think of it

You realy should try it, displacenemt is great. Oh how I wish
Shimmering DSM was in the game.

Had displacement before: IMO it's an overrated ability.

If you have perm-invis, you have a free cloak slot (as opposed to using
displacement). Hence you can wear CoMR, SDSM, and then have amulet and
off-hand slots BOTH free for useful stuff like, say, twoweaponing or
AoLS. This has the plus side (IIRC) of giving you better MC than you
would with the GDSM/other-reflection-source combo. Alternatively, you
can wear a robe over GDSM.

[Robert R Schneck]

Post by 5parrow

Post by Seraphim

Post by JH
I see your point, but I don't
really know if it's a big disadvantage, and I almost never have
displacement, so I didn't really think of it

You realy should try it, displacenemt is great. Oh how I wish
Shimmering DSM was in the game.

Had displacement before: IMO it's an overrated ability.

It seems to me that it's hardly overrated, as most players don't seem
to rate it very highly.

I also think displacement is great. I wouldn't advise anyone to contort
their game in order to get it; but if you can manage to get a cloak of
displacement, fail to get permanently invisible, and also reasonably get
reflection and magic resistance, it's worth it.

Robert

[David Damerell]

Post by 5parrow

Post by Seraphim

Post by JH
I see your point, but I don't
really know if it's a big disadvantage, and I almost never have
displacement, so I didn't really think of it

You realy should try it, displacenemt is great. Oh how I wish
Shimmering DSM was in the game.

Had displacement before: IMO it's an overrated ability.
If you have perm-invis, you have a free cloak slot (as opposed to using
displacement).

I think you are confusing "displacement, in and of itself, is useful" with
"displacement eats the cloak slot", which latter no-one is disputing.

[5parrow]

Post by David Damerell

Post by 5parrow
Had displacement before: IMO it's an overrated ability.
If you have perm-invis, you have a free cloak slot (as opposed to using
displacement).

I think you are confusing "displacement, in and of itself, is useful" with
"displacement eats the cloak slot", which latter no-one is disputing.

Yes and no; I'm just pointing out that perm-invis has an advantage in
that it does not eat the cloak slot (which no one seems to have mentioned).

[David Damerell]

Post by 5parrow

Post by David Damerell
I think you are confusing "displacement, in and of itself, is useful" with
"displacement eats the cloak slot", which latter no-one is disputing.

Yes and no; I'm just pointing out that perm-invis has an advantage in
that it does not eat the cloak slot (which no one seems to have mentioned).

No-one has mentioned it because it is common knowledge, surely.

[David Damerell]

Post by JH
but is displacement really that much better? if the monster doesn't have
see invisible,

Yes, even if the monster doesn't have see invisible. If it does,
displacement is obviously enormously superior.

[ClothHat]

Post by JH
2. or, with teleport and control, you can just pop into the shop, buy the
stuff you want, and teleport out

Why on earth would you pay for your goods if you had teleportation and
teleport control?

[Yashichi]

Post by ClothHat

Post by JH
2. or, with teleport and control, you can just pop into the shop, buy
the stuff you want, and teleport out

Why on earth would you pay for your goods if you had teleportation and
teleport control?

Well, JJ did say ze was playing a samurai....

[Benjamin Lewis]

Post by ClothHat

Post by JH
2. or, with teleport and control, you can just pop into the shop, buy the
stuff you want, and teleport out

Why on earth would you pay for your goods if you had teleportation and
teleport control?

Because you were role-playing a lawful character?

[Kassil]

Post by J. J. Marjanen
I have several times played Samurai in a
multi-user Nethack. Previously I used to
prefer Wizard characters.
Now I have a rather promising Samurai
BUT he has quaffed the ! of invisibility
which was obviously blessed. It is an
essential problem only in shops where
the shopkeepers inform that "invisible
customers are not welcome".
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again. In my opinion,
*blessed* potions should not work
that way.

Two words: Mummy Wrapping.

[J. J. Marjanen]

Thanks for your replies. My invisible Samurai
died a few days ago but he survived to the
beginning of the Quest.

--
--
J. J. Marjanen
***@pcuf.fi
http://www.pcuf.fi/~jjm/

Post by J. J. Marjanen
I have several times played Samurai in a
multi-user Nethack. Previously I used to
prefer Wizard characters.
Now I have a rather promising Samurai
BUT he has quaffed the ! of invisibility
which was obviously blessed. It is an
essential problem only in shops where
the shopkeepers inform that "invisible
customers are not welcome".
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again. In my opinion,
*blessed* potions should not work
that way.

.

[Jakob Creutzig]

Post by J. J. Marjanen
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again.

(Spoily things in rot-13)

There is, but it's not pleasant. (/ bs Pnapryyngvba
fubhyq qb.) I would prefer, in your situation, to
build up a nice pet (vs lbh svaq na vqyr cbylgenc,
znl gnxr vgf gvzr, ohg vf jbegu vg) and show these
arrogant shopkeepers who has the arch-lich pet.
Alternately, once you are rich, you can easily
afford the penalty for making holes in the wall
of shops (nsgre gur tabzvfpu zvarf, gurer'f n tbbq
punapr gb unir fbzr inyhnoyr trzf lbh pna genqr, r.t..)

Post by J. J. Marjanen
In my opinion,
*blessed* potions should not work
that way.

Well, if you drink a potion you want to get the potion's
effect, hence it's natural for a blessed potion to have
an effect lasting longer. Much longer...

Best,
Jakob

[Richard Bos]

Post by Jakob Creutzig

Post by J. J. Marjanen
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again.

(Spoily things in rot-13)
There is, but it's not pleasant. (/ bs Pnapryyngvba
fubhyq qb.)

Surely not?

Richard

[Sam Dennis]

Post by Richard Bos

[wands of cancellation cancel your intrinsic invisibilty]

Surely not?

Indeed not.

[Seraphim]

Post by Jakob Creutzig

Post by J. J. Marjanen
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again.

(Spoily things in rot-13)
There is, but it's not pleasant. (/ bs Pnapryyngvba
fubhyq qb.

Well, maybe it should, but right now it doesn't.

[Raisse the Thaumaturge]

Post by Seraphim

Post by Jakob Creutzig

Post by J. J. Marjanen
However, I would be pleased to know,
whether there is any possibility to
become visible again.

(Spoily things in rot-13)
There is, but it's not pleasant. (/ bs Pnapryyngvba
fubhyq qb.

Well, maybe it should, but right now it doesn't.

And it's not unpleasant as long as you drop everything of value. It's
not as if it does anything to *you*.

Raisse, killed by a wand

[Rob Ellwood]

Post by Raisse the Thaumaturge

...maybe [cancellation] should [remove invisibility], but right
now it doesn't.

And it's not unpleasant as long as you drop everything of value. It's
not as if it does anything to *you*.

Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!

Anything that convinces a player to take off most of his
armor is a good idea. Anything that convinces a player to take
off all his enchanted armor, and then to drop it, and then to drop
a lot of his other useful stuff, usually including his weapon...

...and then to step away from the pile...

...is a superb idea, and must be implemented immediately.

(I considered proposing that it cure lycanthropy, too, but
wereratification can leave you naked and in trouble more than once.)

[David Corbett]

Post by Rob Ellwood
Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!
Rob "this would dramatically improve the state of the
art for YASDs" Ellwood

Yet Another Sadistic Development?

[Rob Ellwood]

Post by David Corbett

Post by Rob Ellwood
Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!
Rob "this would dramatically improve the state of the
art for YASDs" Ellwood

Yet Another Sadistic Development?

Exactly.

Dev Team members are cruel and sadistic. The question is,
are they cruel and sadistic enough?

No.

Unspoiling lichen corpses to feed vegetarian monks (and,
in passing, the starving multitudes of other classes). Newt
corpses giving spell points to desperate first-level wizards,
giving some of them a chance to force-bolt jackal #2 before it
quite finishes killing them. A skill system which gives most
characters an extra point or two of damage by the mid-game.

These are sad times. We are moving towards a kinder,
gentler Nethack. And I don't like it one bit. The Dev Team has
let us down.

My cruel and malevolent suggestion was an attempt to
return the Dev Team to their original black-hearted selves. I'm
doing it for your own good. You should be grateful.

[Benjamin Lewis]

Post by Rob Ellwood

Post by Raisse the Thaumaturge

...maybe [cancellation] should [remove invisibility], but right
now it doesn't.

And it's not unpleasant as long as you drop everything of value. It's
not as if it does anything to *you*.

Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!

Shouldn't it remove your other intrinsics too, then?

Hee hee.

[Jakob Creutzig]

Post by Benjamin Lewis

Post by Rob Ellwood

Post by Raisse the Thaumaturge

...maybe [cancellation] should [remove invisibility], but right
now it doesn't.

And it's not unpleasant as long as you drop everything of value. It's
not as if it does anything to *you*.

Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!

Shouldn't it remove your other intrinsics too, then?

Somehow I thought it would. Sorry for the misinformation.
"Your knowledge of the spoiler is growing faint.
You read the spoilers. [More] Your knowledge of the spoiler
is keener."

Best,
Jakob

[Heikki J Wilenius]

Post by Benjamin Lewis

Post by Rob Ellwood
Dev Team: it is a major, major bug that cancellation does
not remove invisibility! A big bug! Trust me on this!

Shouldn't it remove your other intrinsics too, then?

Definitely. And cancel your spellcasting abilities - it should put
all your magical skills to unskilled, and make you forget your spells.

:-P

heikki