Vulture's Eye and Vulture's Claw

['Frank Rademakers]

Hi, all

Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

Vulture's Eye is a further development of Falcon's Eye, Vulture's Claw
is the same interface, but uses Slash'EM instead of Nethack.Both use the
most current versions of Nethack and Slash'EM. Only the interface has
changed to the 3D isometric one of Falcon's Eye.

If you have any questions, visit the forum and we'll help.

Have fun!

[John H.]

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

Really cool, thanks for the heads up!

- John H.

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by John H.

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

Really cool, thanks for the heads up!
- John H.

Thanks!

There were still some annoying graphical bugs with the first version of
Vulture's Claw, things like giant ants appearing on dark parts of rooms,
and I just uploaded a new package that fixes that. So you might want to
download the new version.

At the moment there are 2 (very) minor bugs left on the list:

1. The splash screens aren't showing in the Windows versions.

2. In Vulture's Claw, the floor graphics beneath objects show the
graphic for "a dark part of the room" until you pick them up. This has
to do with the display layers used by Slash'EM. This is only annoying
when you want to kick chests and boxes.

Both aren't very serious bugs, and should be fixed soon.

[Darth.]

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

I have a complaint. My wife saw me playing with this new interface
(which is great) and has decided to start playing as well, so now I
can't get on to the computer :-P

Darth.

[ihope]

Great!

Looks like an MMORPG, but it doesn't play like one...

With a few tweaks, though, not affecting gameplay, it could be great...

[ihope]

Oh, I think you should be able to see what you are wearing from the
'main screen'...

And what bugs me is the popup windows. I want to be able to right-click
a box and click 'loot' or something like that, and then you would be
shown both what's in the box and what's in your main inventory, so you
could drag things back and forth...

And animations! I want to *see* the guy open his knapsack and look
inside...

And like I said, I should be able to open the inventory window and
right-click some food and select 'eat.'

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by ihope
Oh, I think you should be able to see what you are wearing from the
'main screen'...
And what bugs me is the popup windows. I want to be able to right-click
a box and click 'loot' or something like that, and then you would be
shown both what's in the box and what's in your main inventory, so you
could drag things back and forth...
And animations! I want to *see* the guy open his knapsack and look
inside...
And like I said, I should be able to open the inventory window and
right-click some food and select 'eat.'

We are planning to improve a lot of things in the interface, at the
moment it is still mostly how it works in Nethack and Slash'EM. And use
fully transparent 24-bit graphics.

I don't think we are going to do real animations. That would be an
awesome amount of work. But we might do things like showing the weapon
you're holding, a visual health and mana bar, unique graphics for all
the artifacts, and Clive just made all peaceful creatures a bit brighter
already.

Sound is coming in the next release as well, and the incorrect floor
tiles beneath objects are fixed.

I'll post an update when the next version is ready in a few days, in the
mean time we would like it very much if anyone who has ideas for
improvements would post them in the forum at http://www.diguru.com

And if anyone wants to help with the development, send me ( frank @
diguru.com ), or Clive ( clive @ darkarts.co.za ) a mail.

[Michael Lehotay]

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

Heh, that rogue screenshoot is actually from rogue clone IV:
http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=83592&ssid=2198

And the NetHack screenshot looks familiar too. Anybody know where that
one came from?

-ML

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by Michael Lehotay

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=83592&ssid=2198
And the NetHack screenshot looks familiar too. Anybody know where that
one came from?
-ML

It's a piece from a Qt screenshot, from
http://trolls.troll.no/warwick/nethack/

;-)

[Pasi Kallinen]

Post by Michael Lehotay

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com

http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=83592&ssid=2198
And the NetHack screenshot looks familiar too. Anybody know where that
one came from?

I guess is Loading Image...

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com
Vulture's Eye is a further development of Falcon's Eye, Vulture's Claw
is the same interface, but uses Slash'EM instead of Nethack.Both use the
most current versions of Nethack and Slash'EM. Only the interface has
changed to the 3D isometric one of Falcon's Eye.
If you have any questions, visit the forum and we'll help.
Have fun!

We just uploaded new versions for Windows, as well as for Linux/Unix.

All bugs are fixed, the sound works, it is completely functional and
stable now, as far as we know.

Enjoy!

[b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de]

Post by Frank Rademakers
We just uploaded new versions for Windows, as well as for Linux/Unix.

excellent..
but please, please, provide a zip file for the win32 binaries,
rather than this installer (gksetup).
i'm on a low-end system (<64mb), and this 20mb-installer eats LOTS of memory
and disk space/crashes here. also i think, people who can handle nethack
can also handle zip files ;)

thankx,
b.wilke

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de

Post by Frank Rademakers
We just uploaded new versions for Windows, as well as for Linux/Unix.

excellent..
but please, please, provide a zip file for the win32 binaries,
rather than this installer (gksetup).
i'm on a low-end system (<64mb), and this 20mb-installer eats LOTS of memory
and disk space/crashes here. also i think, people who can handle nethack
can also handle zip files ;)
thankx,
b.wilke

A zip file is only 500 KB smaller, I don't think that would solve your
problem. But I could make separate versions without sound, those would
only be ~7 MB each. Would you like me to do that?

[b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de]

Post by Frank Rademakers
A zip file is only 500 KB smaller, I don't think that would solve your
problem. But I could make separate versions without sound, those would
only be ~7 MB each. Would you like me to do that?

the size of the installer is not the problem, but the way the installer
operates, it creates at least another 40mb of temporary data during install
and also uses a lot of ram i.e. starts endless swapping here (win95).

so if you could create a zip, with or without sound..i would
really be thankful.

thankx,
b.wilke

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de
the size of the installer is not the problem, but the way the installer
operates, it creates at least another 40mb of temporary data during install
and also uses a lot of ram i.e. starts endless swapping here (win95).
so if you could create a zip, with or without sound..i would
really be thankful.
thankx,
b.wilke

Ok. Done. I added two zipfiles, with sound. Let me know if it works,
otherwise I can replace them with zips without sound.

[b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de]

Post by Frank Rademakers
Ok. Done. I added two zipfiles, with sound. Let me know if it works,
otherwise I can replace them with zips without sound.

yes it works, thank you.
i would suggest to generally distribute the sounds
as optional package, because the whole thing is a bit large
for people without broadband.

i have replaced sdl.dll with the one i normally use (only 1/10
of the size, yours is probably the debug-enabled version) and i
also have compressed the main program with upx.
all in all this saves another 5mb, and the whole (without sounds)
is just around 12mb when installed and about 6.2mb when zipped.

anyway, this is probably only interesting to minimalists ;)


b.wilke

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de
yes it works, thank you.
i would suggest to generally distribute the sounds
as optional package, because the whole thing is a bit large
for people without broadband.
i have replaced sdl.dll with the one i normally use (only 1/10
of the size, yours is probably the debug-enabled version) and i
also have compressed the main program with upx.
all in all this saves another 5mb, and the whole (without sounds)
is just around 12mb when installed and about 6.2mb when zipped.
anyway, this is probably only interesting to minimalists ;)
b.wilke

Good to hear!

I will see what I can do to make the next version smaller, like
replacing the dll as you said and reducing the size of the sound files.
I haven't got unlimited space or bandwith either, so it helps me as
well. ;-)

[Ron Rogers Jr.]

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de

Post by Frank Rademakers
Ok. Done. I added two zipfiles, with sound. Let me know if it works,
otherwise I can replace them with zips without sound.

yes it works, thank you.
i would suggest to generally distribute the sounds
as optional package, because the whole thing is a bit large
for people without broadband.
i have replaced sdl.dll with the one i normally use (only 1/10
of the size, yours is probably the debug-enabled version) and i
also have compressed the main program with upx.
all in all this saves another 5mb, and the whole (without sounds)
is just around 12mb when installed and about 6.2mb when zipped.
anyway, this is probably only interesting to minimalists ;)
b.wilke

I'm another minimalist, though I run Linux. 32MB RAM, 294MHz CPU and
yes, it's playable.(Though I usually play ordinary X11 tiled nethack)


CronoCloud (Ron Rogers)

[Clive Crous]

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de

Post by Frank Rademakers
Ok. Done. I added two zipfiles, with sound. Let me know if it works,
otherwise I can replace them with zips without sound.

yes it works, thank you.
i would suggest to generally distribute the sounds
as optional package, because the whole thing is a bit large
for people without broadband.
i have replaced sdl.dll with the one i normally use (only 1/10
of the size, yours is probably the debug-enabled version) and i
also have compressed the main program with upx.
all in all this saves another 5mb, and the whole (without sounds)
is just around 12mb when installed and about 6.2mb when zipped.

The DLL's are built with debug on because it is not an official release
yet and may infact be a bug haven :(
when 1.9.4 is released, the binaries should be tighter i agree, but for
now it's usefull in tracing where things explode .... if they do

Clive Crous

Post by b***@studserv.uni-leipzig.de
anyway, this is probably only interesting to minimalists ;)
b.wilke

[Jym]

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com
Vulture's Eye is a further development of Falcon's Eye, Vulture's Claw
is the same interface, but uses Slash'EM instead of Nethack.Both use the
most current versions of Nethack and Slash'EM. Only the interface has
changed to the 3D isometric one of Falcon's Eye.
If you have any questions, visit the forum and we'll help.
Have fun!

We just uploaded new versions for Windows, as well as for Linux/Unix.

Could you make the name of the archive (for Veye and Vclaw) different, so
that we could download both of them in the same place (eg /usr/src) ?

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Jym]

Post by Jym

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by 'Frank Rademakers
Hi, all
Clive just finished the new Windows versions of Vulture's Eye and
Vulture's Claw. They are both ready for download at: http://www.diguru.com
Vulture's Eye is a further development of Falcon's Eye, Vulture's Claw
is the same interface, but uses Slash'EM instead of Nethack.Both use the
most current versions of Nethack and Slash'EM. Only the interface has
changed to the 3D isometric one of Falcon's Eye.
If you have any questions, visit the forum and we'll help.
Have fun!

We just uploaded new versions for Windows, as well as for Linux/Unix.

Could you make the name of the archive (for Veye and Vclaw) different, so
that we could download both of them in the same place (eg /usr/src) ?

Just untarred the file.

Am I wrong or are really both Veye and Vclaw in the same file ? In this
case, why having two webpages with download links ?

The firsts lines int the Makefile seems wrong ("to build slash'em: make
nethack-home").

Would it be possible to have some INSTALL file explaining stuff (I never
liked reading Makefiles) ?

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by Jym
Just untarred the file.
Am I wrong or are really both Veye and Vclaw in the same file ? In this
case, why having two webpages with download links ?
The firsts lines int the Makefile seems wrong ("to build slash'em: make
nethack-home").
Would it be possible to have some INSTALL file explaining stuff (I never
liked reading Makefiles) ?
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Yes, that is correct. Sorry about that. I changed the text on the pages.

And you are right, that is a bug. ;-) I'll report it, and we'll fix it.

Use "make slashem-home" instead.

And we'll make a better manual. It's on our list, but you know how it is
with programmers and manuals...

:-D

[Jym]

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by Jym
Would it be possible to have some INSTALL file explaining stuff (I never
liked reading Makefiles) ?

And we'll make a better manual. It's on our list, but you know how it is
with programmers and manuals...

Yeah, I know... I think none of my programs have anything close to a
manual...

Well, even if the INSTALL file only contains the 4 instructions lines from
the Makefile, I would think it better, I always feel like doing something
forbidden and dangerous when reading Makefiles without being asked so...
(and so I always prefered programs with correct ./configure rather than
programs asking to edit Makefiles, but this is another problem).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Ron Rogers Jr.]

Post by Jym

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by Jym
Would it be possible to have some INSTALL file explaining stuff (I never
liked reading Makefiles) ?

And we'll make a better manual. It's on our list, but you know how it is
with programmers and manuals...

Yeah, I know... I think none of my programs have anything close to a
manual...
Well, even if the INSTALL file only contains the 4 instructions lines from
the Makefile, I would think it better, I always feel like doing something
forbidden and dangerous when reading Makefiles without being asked so...

Me too.

Post by Jym
(and so I always prefered programs with correct ./configure rather than
programs asking to edit Makefiles, but this is another problem).
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

I was once told that the Nethack codebase predates "configure" so it
continues to use manual Makefile and since Falcon's/Vulture's Eye is
just Nethack with a spiffed up UI....



CronoCloud (Ron Rogers)

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by Jym
Could you make the name of the archive (for Veye and Vclaw) different, so
that we could download both of them in the same place (eg /usr/src) ?
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

As it is, it's a single repository that contains both versions at the
same time. So you only have to download the one file.

From the Makefile:
to build NetHack in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build Slashem in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build * Both in your home directory: make home

The interface itself is exactly the same code and other resources for
both, so it would be very inconvenient to split it up and maintain two
separate versions.

I'll change the text on the website to make this clear, as it isn't very
at the moment.

[Jym]

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by Jym
Could you make the name of the archive (for Veye and Vclaw) different, so
that we could download both of them in the same place (eg /usr/src) ?
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

As it is, it's a single repository that contains both versions at the
same time. So you only have to download the one file.

OK. This is rather unclear at first sight.

Post by Frank Rademakers
to build NetHack in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build Slashem in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build * Both in your home directory: make home

Yes. Is the Slashem line really correct ? (especially since target 'home'
goes to targets 'nethack-home' and 'slashem-home').

Is it possible to build the stuff in standard directories (/usr/games),
with root privileges of course ?

By the way, both nethack-home and slashem-home leads to errors on my
system (debian testing), apparently something SDL related but I did not
grab all the error messages (we should maybe continue discussion about
that via mail rather than on rgrn).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Clive Crous]

Post by Jym

Post by Frank Rademakers

Post by Jym
Could you make the name of the archive (for Veye and Vclaw) different, so
that we could download both of them in the same place (eg /usr/src) ?
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

As it is, it's a single repository that contains both versions at the
same time. So you only have to download the one file.

OK. This is rather unclear at first sight.

Post by Frank Rademakers
to build NetHack in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build Slashem in your home directory: make nethack-home
to build * Both in your home directory: make home

Yes. Is the Slashem line really correct ? (especially since target 'home'
goes to targets 'nethack-home' and 'slashem-home').
Is it possible to build the stuff in standard directories (/usr/games),
with root privileges of course ?
By the way, both nethack-home and slashem-home leads to errors on my
system (debian testing), apparently something SDL related but I did not
grab all the error messages (we should maybe continue discussion about
that via mail rather than on rgrn).

as im moving towards 1.9.4 im making the distinction between vultures
eye (nethack) and vultures claw (slashem) less explicit. by the time
1.9.4 arrives, there will be one page on darkarts.co.za for both, one
source download, one install. For binary distributions however they
will probably be shipped seperate as that is the nature of installers
and programs. For source code however im tiring of updating dual
repositories (in fact as of this morning my 'two' repositories on my
website are just symlinked to a single "vultures" repo)

to build from source and install in the usual locations follow the
normal unix building instuctions for each of nethack and slashem as you
would when building their vanilla versions from source.

sdl: the source code is targeted at freebsd not linux, to build in
linux, edit (nethack|slashem)/sys/unix/Makefile.src and search replace
" sdl11-config " with "sdl-config"

:)

hope this helps
Clive

Post by Jym
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Jym]

Post by Clive Crous
to build from source and install in the usual locations follow the
normal unix building instuctions for each of nethack and slashem as you
would when building their vanilla versions from source.

Is it really necessary to have nethack|slash'em sources as well as
Vulture's * ? Naively, I would have think that the GUI only interprets
stuff from the program and send stuff to it without need for a whole
recompilation (AFAICR, the differents GUI of the debian distribution do
depend on the base package but are binary packages and mutually
independant and with no need to recompile the sources).

Post by Clive Crous
sdl: the source code is targeted at freebsd not linux, to build in
linux, edit (nethack|slashem)/sys/unix/Makefile.src and search replace
" sdl11-config " with "sdl-config"

That would definitively be the kind of stuff you should put in the INSTALL
file :-)
(maybe copy/paste it asap in order to avoid reanswering the same
questions/retyping the same stuff many time)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Clive Crous]

Post by Jym

Post by Clive Crous
to build from source and install in the usual locations follow the
normal unix building instuctions for each of nethack and slashem as you
would when building their vanilla versions from source.

Is it really necessary to have nethack|slash'em sources as well as
Vulture's * ?

yes, for now, jaako made many changes to the nethack source itself in
falcons eye, which i had to carry over to slashem too to get it to work.

aside from the non-standard changes however, it's the nature of the
nethack ui interface that you *HAVE* to at least make minimal changes to
the origional variant. Thats a question better asked of the devteam ..
why ?

Naively, I would have think that the GUI only interprets

Post by Jym
stuff from the program and send stuff to it without need for a whole
recompilation (AFAICR, the differents GUI of the debian distribution do
depend on the base package but are binary packages and mutually
independant and with no need to recompile the sources).

yes of course, and if someone make a deb package of vultures, the same
will appl

Post by Jym

Post by Clive Crous
sdl: the source code is targeted at freebsd not linux, to build in
linux, edit (nethack|slashem)/sys/unix/Makefile.src and search replace
" sdl11-config " with "sdl-config"

That would definitively be the kind of stuff you should put in the INSTALL
file :-)
(maybe copy/paste it asap in order to avoid reanswering the same
questions/retyping the same stuff many time)

I agree

Post by Jym
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Jym]

Post by Clive Crous

Post by Jym
Is it really necessary to have nethack|slash'em sources as well as
Vulture's * ?

yes, for now, jaako made many changes to the nethack source itself in
falcons eye, which i had to carry over to slashem too to get it to work.
aside from the non-standard changes however, it's the nature of the
nethack ui interface that you *HAVE* to at least make minimal changes to
the origional variant. Thats a question better asked of the devteam ..
why ?

Well, I don't know anything about nethack sources, but I must confess I
still don't understand why those changes in the sources are needed for a
GUI.

I would think that nethack send some strings (or similar stuff, what is
usually writtent on screen) and read some strings and by piping stdin and
stdout you could sens the correct orders...

Do you have some concrets small exmaples of what kind of changes in the
sources have to be made ?

(in case my message is not clear, I'm absolutely not doubting you in the
fact that these changes are nedeed, I'm just curious about them)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by Jym
Well, I don't know anything about nethack sources, but I must confess I
still don't understand why those changes in the sources are needed for a
GUI.
I would think that nethack send some strings (or similar stuff, what is
usually writtent on screen) and read some strings and by piping stdin and
stdout you could sens the correct orders...
Do you have some concrets small exmaples of what kind of changes in the
sources have to be made ?
(in case my message is not clear, I'm absolutely not doubting you in the
fact that these changes are nedeed, I'm just curious about them)
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Well, consider a stack of objects, for one. Say, there is some gold on a
staircase, and you're standing on top of that. You would want to see all
three, not only the character. It would take far too much time to have
the graphical interface query each square (with ";" or ":", for example)
before it would be able to draw the screen.

And the interface needs to "know" what it is doing in either case, so it
can pop up a message box, for example. It is far easier to intercept the
function calls in the source than parsing all the output all the time.
And there already is a mechanism to have a separate interface handle the
display and I/O anyway. It just wasn't made with an isometric 3D
interface in mind.

[Clive Crous]

Post by Jym

Post by Clive Crous

Post by Jym
Is it really necessary to have nethack|slash'em sources as well as
Vulture's * ?

yes, for now, jaako made many changes to the nethack source itself in
falcons eye, which i had to carry over to slashem too to get it to work.
aside from the non-standard changes however, it's the nature of the
nethack ui interface that you *HAVE* to at least make minimal changes to
the origional variant. Thats a question better asked of the devteam ..
why ?

Well, I don't know anything about nethack sources, but I must confess I
still don't understand why those changes in the sources are needed for a
GUI.
I would think that nethack send some strings (or similar stuff, what is
usually writtent on screen) and read some strings and by piping stdin and
stdout you could sens the correct orders...
Do you have some concrets small exmaples of what kind of changes in the
sources have to be made ?
(in case my message is not clear, I'm absolutely not doubting you in the
fact that these changes are nedeed, I'm just curious about them)

at the lowest barest minimum level look at the top of nethack/src/windows.c:

...
#ifdef BEOS_GRAPHICS

extern struct window_procs beos_procs;

extern void NDECL(be_win_init);

#endif

#ifdef AMIGA_INTUITION

extern struct window_procs amii_procs;

extern struct window_procs amiv_procs;

extern void NDECL(ami_wininit_data);

#endif

#ifdef WIN32_GRAPHICS

extern struct window_procs win32_procs;

#endif

#ifdef GNOME_GRAPHICS

#include "winGnome.h"

extern struct window_procs Gnome_procs;

#endif

#ifdef MSWIN_GRAPHICS

extern struct window_procs mswin_procs;

#endif

...

you need to define the interface, each interface does this

if you want an in depth explanation, read nethack/doc/windows.doc

not to mention adding the interface's source code files to
nethack/slashem's makefiles

Post by Jym
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

[Frank Rademakers]

There is a bug in the website, when viewed with IE. The scrollbar isn't
working anymore. And I totally cannot get it back to work. Grr!

If anyone knows what the problem might be, please tell me!

[Frank Rademakers]

Post by Frank Rademakers
There is a bug in the website, when viewed with IE. The scrollbar isn't
working anymore. And I totally cannot get it back to work. Grr!
If anyone knows what the problem might be, please tell me!

It's fixed. I made a stupid mistake...

[Jym]

Post by Frank Rademakers
There is a bug in the website, when viewed with IE. The scrollbar isn't
working anymore. And I totally cannot get it back to work. Grr!
If anyone knows what the problem might be, please tell me!

\begin{cheap trick}
IE ?
\end{cheap trick}

(there exists plenty of browser that are free and do respect W3C
standards)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.