YANI: Sticky Notes, naming, and h

[Tom R]

smWarning: this YANI post has been extremely overanalyzed on my end,
drawing a great deal of information from WikiHack
(http://nethack.wikia.com), and may include obvious oversights as a result.

Either way, this is a bit TL;DR. Check the end for a much more brief
summary.

===

Before I get into the YANI post, however, I wanted to cite an
inconsistency: #name'ing an individual object "Elbereth" works but does
not scare monsters that respect Elbereth.

In the perfect world, attempting this would result in "Your hand
slips..." and be added with a fix for the artifact bug in this same
behavior.

Back to the post!

===

I'm a natural scatterbrain when it comes to details. Naturally, I have a
habit of (E)ngraving or #name'ing messages to myself in long games, or
games that have very poor turn-to-day ratio.

In forming my plans against countering h (specifically, [master] mind
flayers, as a dwarven valkyrie), I got to digging up information on how
to mitigate amnesia. Answer: metagaming via text editor, liberal use of
(E)ngrave, #name, genociding h via two U?oG, plain memorization, or
stocking up on ranged weapons and ?oI.

(Of course ignoring the fact I'm already metagaming by reading spoilers.
See below.)



Now these are all perfectly functional solutions, but would be more fun
with the a new tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

This would make sense in gaming context, as a supplement to (E)ngrave,
#name, and magic markers (though these need not be used with sticky notes).


Sticky Notes are consumable, and thus hold no charges. They may be:

* (a)pplied once to #name all items in top level inventory an
abbreviated version of their identification status. This will consume
the entire pad of notes (we all abuse these things, don't we?).

Anything in top level inventory that is already #name'd will not be
affected, and these names will remain when reading scrolls of amnesia or
being flayed.

For example, a Blessed Scroll of Identify would be auto-named "B?oI",
whereas "Excalibur" would remain unchanged.

BUC may affect the accuracy of these messages after being flayed, but I
see no reason to deviate from Uncursed.


* #name -> individual object (or multiplexed behavior on (a)pply) to use
a single note. This will not consume the pad and not have a chance to
smudge lettering, but Elbereth will NOT be respected (it is presumed
that, like most sticky notes, these messages are illegible to all but
the writer).

These notes may be placed in a direction after writing. Placing on the
ground or an immovable object (ie, a wall) will add a note to that
space. Returning to the space (or using :) will not blind result in the
message:

"You see here a note. It reads: foo"


===

Rationale: Reduce the temptation to metagame, and offer the player an
intelligent counter for flaying without undue annoyance. Additionally,
allow the player to leave "ToDo" notes and unsmudgeable notes to self
without wasting charges on that /oFire, etc.

Sticky notes should be reasonably rare, so as to not completely negate
the effects of flaying or scrolls of amnesia, with use of individual
notes having limited utility dependent on the player.



Additional uses of notes:

* Notes do not require a source of writing, though magic marker use may
be included. It is assumed that the player can (E)ngrave for the desired
effect, fold corners for semantic messages, or that these have carbon
paper-like properties.

* RNG may place notes in areas of a level with doting messages to the
player (rumors and YAFM variety). Basically, a little variety to RNG
messages etched in the dust or on tombstones. (RNG messages are, of
course, legible. Must be a secretarial type.)

* Minetown is a good location to sell Pads of Sticky Notes.

* Placing a sticky note on an Ice Box will result in YAFM about watching
one's weight or leaving messages on the fridge.

* Placing a sticky note on yourself will result in YAFM about labeling
oneself. ("At least you won't forget yourself.")

* Bones piles may include notes. However, objects that are #name'd will
lose their naming status and protection, if necessary. ("This
handwriting is atrocious!")

* Including "Maud" in a sticky note message will result in YAFM. ("Who
is this Maud person, anyway?")

* Using a sticky note without writing "X" breaks the illiterate conduct.

* A "scatterbrained" conduct may be added for users of sticky notes that
subsequently use ?oAmnesia or are flayed.


===

*** BEGIN SUMMARY ***

Sticky notes may be:

* (a)pplied to auto-#name objects in top level inventory as protection
from flaying
AND
* #name -> individual object to use a single note and place it on an
object. Unsmudgeable, does not invoke Elbereth.


Utility: Simplified, partial protection from flaying and replacement for
notes in the dust or metagaming notes to self in extended games.

TL;DR

*** END SUMMARY ***

===

End infodump of my idea. Doubtful that this will be implemented (and
likely to have been suggested before), but I figured I'd get the idea
out of my system as my very first r.g.r.n post. :)

(Although that is no excuse to not hit me full force with your opinions)

- Tom R

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Tom R
In forming my plans against countering h (specifically, [master] mind
flayers, as a dwarven valkyrie),

-- snip --

Post by Tom R
more fun
with the a new tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

-- snip --

Post by Tom R
Rationale: Reduce the temptation to metagame, and offer the player an
intelligent counter for flaying without undue annoyance. Additionally,
allow the player to leave "ToDo" notes and unsmudgeable notes to self
without wasting charges on that /oFire, etc.

Methinks that if you utterly dislike the effects of amnesia attacks,
it is far simpler to remove them altogether from the game, rather than
add another* and circumvoluted way of avoiding them.

* another, as in: genocide, greased helmet, Elbereth, scroll of scare
monster, polymorph, etc.

--
Aykavil

[Doug Freyburger]

Post by Tom R
Now these are all perfectly functional solutions, but would be more fun
with the a new tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

This tool already exists in the game. It's called a pile of rocks.
And here you thought the main purpose of rocks was to throw
past boulders in sokoban ...

[Martin Read]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Tom R
Now these are all perfectly functional solutions, but would be more fun
with the a new tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

This tool already exists in the game. It's called a pile of rocks.
And here you thought the main purpose of rocks was to throw
past boulders in sokoban ...

It is. Followed shortly by "throw at eels/illithids in the absence of
sufficient scrolls of genocide".

[Kent Paul Dolan]

Post by Martin Read

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Tom R
Now these are all perfectly functional
solutions, but would be more fun with the a new
tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

This tool already exists in the game. It's
called a pile of rocks. And here you thought the
main purpose of rocks was to throw past boulders
in sokoban ...

It is. Followed shortly by "throw at
eels/illithids in the absence of sufficient
scrolls of genocide".

It would only take a minor tweak to the game to
report when a named object hit a monster, so that
you could have messages like:

"The rock named Barney hits the ogre named Fred."

Or just "The Barney hits a Fred".

[Tom R]

Post by Doug Freyburger

Post by Tom R
Now these are all perfectly functional solutions, but would be more fun
with the a new tool: a "Pad of Sticky Notes."

This tool already exists in the game. It's called a pile of rocks.
And here you thought the main purpose of rocks was to throw
past boulders in sokoban ...

Your point is well-taken.

I'd considered doing this with darts (common enough, weight of 1 instead
of 10, etc), but I felt a more focused solution would be handy. Mostly,
for the first use case of quicker protection from flaying and ?oAmnesia
beyond compulsive #nameing or paranoia tactics (Genocide, ranged
weaponry, ad infinitum).

Coincidentally, this line of thinking is what originally led me to test
#nameing a single object Elbereth, with the effects (or lack thereof)
listed in the original post.

Post by Doug Freyburger
Methinks that if you utterly dislike the effects of amnesia attacks,
it is far simpler to remove them altogether from the game, rather than
add another* and circumvoluted way of avoiding them.
* another, as in: genocide, greased helmet, Elbereth, scroll of scare
monster, polymorph, etc.

*snip*

I figured it'd be more of a direct approach (in my mode of thinking),
but mileage on ideas varies. Given the nature of a YANI post, it's safe
to say this deserves more than a few grains of salt.


Either way, I needed to work that out of my system for exactly this kind
of feedback. Thanks. :)

- Tom R

[kcwong]

I also want to see a more complex notes keeping system in the game.

I play a lot of characters at once instead of starting one and play
until he/she dies. And sometimes I don't go back to one of them for a
very, very long time.

I used to spend a lot of time re-exploring where my stashes were,
where the entrance to the gnomie mines was, etc., what I was doing,
etc. After a while I started keeping notes in a spreadsheet - removes
the tedium of re-exploration. I have a template to keep track of where
are the dungeon features (altars, shops, sinks, fountains, MMR,
special levels), pass tune, what I was doing, where my stashes were,
what dangers I was aware of on what levels.

I think that's necessary for playing multiple characters, but also is
kind of an exploit - Mind Flayer's memory eating attack will have
little effect on me.

Maybe instead of adding a new item, we could give blank paper a new
use when applied. Ink may not be needed - you could write with dirt,
colored gem/glass, or even blood. Maybe wands cannot be used for this
purpose. With dirt, gem/glass and blood, the writings would fade like
engravings overtime (but last longer). With magic marker it's
permanent (until wet/canceled?).

What's written will be set in stone until you soak it wet (which wipes
the whole paper clean), and you have to protect the papers from fire
and water. There should be a limit to how many data you can write.
Each written paper will be a non-stackable item, so you can't have too
much of them with you or you will run out of inventory space.

There may even be limitation on what to write. A few ideas:
a) Dungeon features of the level (paper will contain level no. and
existence of discovered dungeon features like shops and altars)
b) Short notes (You can enter a limited number of characters)
And for simplicity's sake, whatever you write will use up the whole
piece of paper.