[evilhack] Strategy and tactics WRT the quest artifact (with abused alignment)

[Janis Papanagnou]

My Monk prepared to face Master Kaen; a blessed scroll of light,
a blessed scroll of earth, a scroll of scare monster, a potion
of full healing, a ring of conflict (not worn), a couple wands
of magic missile, and some physical missile weapons. - Then it
got strange...

Lighting the area (okay), creating the boulder fort (okay). But
somehow the boulder fort got "opened" and Master Kaen adjacent!
A single hit with my Sword of Annihilation - Master Kaen dead.
Hmm.., okay. But then a couple non-native monsters appeared; a
mind flayer that ate my brain (free action doesn't help in this
variant, obviously). A small dragon who came from the other
side just stepped into the boulder fort (thereby the boulder
disappeared). But okay. Together with my great Pegasus - BTW,
how to keep that pet alive when veggy food is rare? - the area
was easily and cleared quickly.

So now I got the Bell and the Exes and returned to the portal.

Now what shall I do with my bad abuse alignment record? - Give
it back to the quest leader? - Take it with me to use it, and
come back later to uncurse the Bell? Or kill the quest leader?
Or something else? - Any opinions or experiences?

Janis

[Janis Papanagnou]

Post by Janis Papanagnou
So now I got the Bell and the Exes and returned to the portal.

I meant the "Eyes" (of the Overworld).

Post by Janis Papanagnou
Now what shall I do with my bad abuse alignment record? - Give
it back to the quest leader? - Take it with me to use it, and
come back later to uncurse the Bell? Or kill the quest leader?
Or something else? - Any opinions or experiences?
Janis

[Mobi Leuser]

Post by Janis Papanagnou
My Monk prepared to face Master Kaen; a blessed scroll of light,
a blessed scroll of earth, a scroll of scare monster, a potion
of full healing, a ring of conflict (not worn), a couple wands
of magic missile, and some physical missile weapons. - Then it
got strange...
Lighting the area (okay), creating the boulder fort (okay). But
somehow the boulder fort got "opened" and Master Kaen adjacent!

Without seeing the ttyrec it's hard to say for sure what happened. There is a very recent commit that allows Riders, shopkeepers, priests, quest leaders, and the
Oracle to break boulders.

Post by Janis Papanagnou
A single hit with my Sword of Annihilation - Master Kaen dead.
Hmm.., okay. But then a couple non-native monsters appeared; a
mind flayer that ate my brain (free action doesn't help in this
variant, obviously). A small dragon who came from the other
side just stepped into the boulder fort (thereby the boulder
disappeared). But okay.

Sounds like Master Kaen managed to summon nasties...

Post by Janis Papanagnou
Together with my great Pegasus - BTW,
how to keep that pet alive when veggy food is rare? - the area
was easily and cleared quickly.
So now I got the Bell and the Exes and returned to the portal.
Now what shall I do with my bad abuse alignment record? - Give
it back to the quest leader? - Take it with me to use it, and
come back later to uncurse the Bell? Or kill the quest leader?
Or something else? - Any opinions or experiences?
Janis

I think Graznop already gave you some tips in another thread?
You might as well postpone chatting to the quest leader until you are ready to do the asc run.
Then simplest is just to give the Eyes back (should you manage to defeat Vecna and he drops the Eye of Vecna you will still have astral vision).
Otherwise kill the quest leader and afterwards repair luck and god anger.

[Janis Papanagnou]

Post by Mobi Leuser

Post by Janis Papanagnou
Now what shall I do with my bad abuse alignment record? - Give
it back to the quest leader? - Take it with me to use it, and
come back later to uncurse the Bell? Or kill the quest leader?
Or something else? - Any opinions or experiences?

I think Graznop already gave you some tips in another thread?

Yes. Sorry to have been unclear. The (sort of) "technical" options
are clear to me; I listed them (at least some obvious ones) above.
I was now more interested in experiences of either one or the other
option, and discussions what served best given what will come, what
is to expect in that variant - I don't know what surprises are to
expect in that variant, and I don't want to get into yet another
irreversible situation or dead end. Discussions of pros and cons,
for example, might also help.

What you write below here goes into that direction. Thanks.

Post by Mobi Leuser
You might as well postpone chatting to the quest leader until you are
ready to do the asc run. Then simplest is just to give the Eyes back
(should you manage to defeat Vecna and he drops the Eye of Vecna you
will still have astral vision). Otherwise kill the quest leader and
afterwards repair luck and god anger.

Since I seem to have already lost divine protection (from an early
prayer) it might also be a good time now to stress my stats a bit
more and then just take some time to fix all issues. One problem I
see is that I want to keep my Pegasus alive, and I think I'd need
to not delay progress and exploration by altar-camping; I have to
find quite some amount of veggy food in the dungeons before doing
the enduring status restoration, I think.

Janis

[G. Raznop]

Post by Janis Papanagnou

Post by Mobi Leuser

Post by Janis Papanagnou
Now what shall I do with my bad abuse alignment record? - Give
it back to the quest leader? - Take it with me to use it, and
come back later to uncurse the Bell? Or kill the quest leader?
Or something else? - Any opinions or experiences?

I think Graznop already gave you some tips in another thread?

Yes. Sorry to have been unclear. The (sort of) "technical" options
are clear to me; I listed them (at least some obvious ones) above.
I was now more interested in experiences of either one or the other
option, and discussions what served best given what will come, what
is to expect in that variant - I don't know what surprises are to
expect in that variant, and I don't want to get into yet another
irreversible situation or dead end. Discussions of pros and cons,
for example, might also help.

The big pro of the Eyes for a tortle is slotless magic resistance (until the wizard is awake).
The con of killing the quest leader (after you've fixed anger and luck) is the permanent luck base of -4, but I don't think it's that bad - see timeout.c (ascension run takes ~<1500 turns).
Or you could delay and decision until later.

Post by Janis Papanagnou
What you write below here goes into that direction. Thanks.

Post by Mobi Leuser
You might as well postpone chatting to the quest leader until you are
ready to do the asc run. Then simplest is just to give the Eyes back
(should you manage to defeat Vecna and he drops the Eye of Vecna you
will still have astral vision). Otherwise kill the quest leader and
afterwards repair luck and god anger.

Since I seem to have already lost divine protection (from an early
prayer) it might also be a good time now to stress my stats a bit
more and then just take some time to fix all issues. One problem I
see is that I want to keep my Pegasus alive, and I think I'd need
to not delay progress and exploration by altar-camping; I have to
find quite some amount of veggy food in the dungeons before doing
the enduring status restoration, I think.

Food for herbivores grows on trees ;-)

G.

[Janis Papanagnou]

Post by G. Raznop
Food for herbivores grows on trees ;-)

Yeah. - I'm not sure (i.e. I don't recall) I've yet seen forests.
I may mix memory impressions from other games and variants I follow
at the servers, with own games, and with other variants I thoroughly
played. (E.g. in Slashem I'd just go to the Lawful quest for an
abundance of trees and veggies.) - In my current games there's not
that many trees; one on level 2, then a couple at the Oracle, and
around level 20 there were some trees (according to the #overview).
Other places had lot of dead trees, and I suppose those won't carry
fruits. (From other variants I infer that every tree can only once
be used to obtain fruits; unless I am mistaken.)

Janis

[G. Raznop]

Post by Janis Papanagnou

Post by G. Raznop
Food for herbivores grows on trees ;-)

Yeah. - I'm not sure (i.e. I don't recall) I've yet seen forests.
I may mix memory impressions from other games and variants I follow
at the servers, with own games, and with other variants I thoroughly
played. (E.g. in Slashem I'd just go to the Lawful quest for an
abundance of trees and veggies.) - In my current games there's not
that many trees; one on level 2, then a couple at the Oracle, and
around level 20 there were some trees (according to the #overview).
Other places had lot of dead trees, and I suppose those won't carry
fruits. (From other variants I infer that every tree can only once
be used to obtain fruits; unless I am mistaken.)
Janis

The first level of the Ice Queen branch has quite a few trees.
(By the way, thanks for finding the bug re. locking / unlocking Sokoban prize doors - I'm just about to use it)

G.

[Janis Papanagnou]

Post by G. Raznop
(By the way, thanks for finding the bug re. locking / unlocking
Sokoban prize doors - I'm just about to use it)

I seem to recall that someone here said that it already got fixed
for the next release. So enjoy it as long as it's still there, and
don't get used to it. ;-)

Janis

[Janis Papanagnou]

Post by G. Raznop

[... I want to keep my Pegasus alive, and I think I'd need
to not delay progress and exploration by altar-camping; I have to
find quite some amount of veggy food in the dungeons before doing
the enduring status restoration, I think.

Food for herbivores grows on trees ;-)

And can be found in water. - I've very recently descended to Gollum,
and my Pegasus flew over the sea to eat some kelp fronds. :-)

Janis

[RecRanger]

Post by Janis Papanagnou

Post by G. Raznop

[... I want to keep my Pegasus alive, and I think I'd need
to not delay progress and exploration by altar-camping; I have to
find quite some amount of veggy food in the dungeons before doing
the enduring status restoration, I think.

Food for herbivores grows on trees ;-)

And can be found in water. - I've very recently descended to Gollum,
and my Pegasus flew over the sea to eat some kelp fronds. :-)
Janis

Medusa level often has a lot of trees. So do quest levels. First level of the
monk quest has a LOT of trees. And while most Ice Queen trees are dead,
there are several that are alive.

They can be 'k'icked for bees and fruit one time each.

Until you find a decent amount of food, wait until your horse becomes
hungry. 'C'hat with them until they whinnie or are confused from hunger.
Leave them on a level, by themselves, for about 100 turns. Return to the
level and it will either be feral and be hostile or peaceful. Feed them food
and it will restore their nutrition to full. Whereas a simple pear will only give
a small amount of nutrition if fed as a pet. Save fruits like oranges for this
purpose as they (horses) will not normally eat them as a pet, unless very
hungry.

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