Discussion:
Instant-death - not even a message?
(too old to reply)
Janis Papanagnou
2018-01-26 11:08:42 UTC
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Oh is this frustrating! - Travelling in the mazes between Medusa and Castle.
Started digging a wall. T:32250. An arch-lich appeared adjacent. Instantly
my inventory and all the rest got displayed. Not even a 'touch of death'
message or anything. The strange sthing, I saw that 'L' only when I ttyrec
replayed the game, but still no "touch" message, which I saw only later in
the endgame log. - It's sad to not have even a single turn to do something,
more so since that Monk was very well developed. To avoid purple 'L' he had
intended to immediately engrave the E-word when reaching the Castle level,
but that unexpected (and highly effective) pre-Castle lich was not fair.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-01-26 14:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Oh is this frustrating! - Travelling in the mazes between Medusa and Castle.
Started digging a wall. T:32250. An arch-lich appeared adjacent. Instantly
my inventory and all the rest got displayed. Not even a 'touch of death'
message or anything. The strange sthing, I saw that 'L' only when I ttyrec
replayed the game
Can you provide a link to the ttyrec? It may be possible to shed some
light.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Brieday, January.
Tomorrow will be Gouday, January.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-01-26 16:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Oh is this frustrating! - Travelling in the mazes between Medusa and Castle.
Started digging a wall. T:32250. An arch-lich appeared adjacent. Instantly
my inventory and all the rest got displayed. Not even a 'touch of death'
message or anything. The strange sthing, I saw that 'L' only when I ttyrec
replayed the game
Can you provide a link to the ttyrec? It may be possible to shed some
light.
Sure...

https://alt.org/nethack/trd/?file=https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/S/Stroller/ttyrec/2018-01-25.16:08:04.ttyrec

(Beware that it's in the "Recent/Unarchived" folder, so the link may become
invalid soon.)

Janis
David Damerell
2018-01-26 16:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Started digging a wall. T:32250. An arch-lich appeared adjacent. Instantly
my inventory and all the rest got displayed. Not even a 'touch of death'
message or anything. The strange sthing, I saw that 'L' only when I ttyrec
replayed the game
Can you provide a link to the ttyrec? It may be possible to shed some
light.
Sure...
I got there, but please if asked for a link to a ttyrec provide a link to
the ttyrec, not to anything else.

https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/S/Stroller/ttyrec/2018-01-25.16:08:04.ttyrec
is the ttyrec if anyone else wants it.

However, you're quite right. Frame 11530:
You start digging. You hit the rock with all your might.--More--
11531, L appears.
11532, 3 ms later, looking at your possessions.

I dunno if there's any unfortunate message-suppression options you might
have set, but otherwise this does look like a bug, doesn't it? I regret I
cannot shed any light, after all. :-(
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Brieday, January.
Tomorrow will be Gouday, January.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-01-26 18:02:24 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Can you provide a link to the ttyrec? It may be possible to shed some
light.
Sure...
I got there, but please if asked for a link to a ttyrec provide a link to
the ttyrec, not to anything else.
Sorry for any inconvenience. I had copy/pasted the link that NAO provided
on the player's ttyrecs page without inspecting or changing it manually.
(Myself I am using a script to automatically extract ttyrecs for specific
games, so I normally don't access the files though that NAO page.)

Curious; what was the actual problem with that link? (Besides being a bit
longer than the one you extracted.)
Post by David Damerell
However, you're quite right. [...]
I dunno if there's any unfortunate message-suppression options you might
have set, but otherwise this does look like a bug, doesn't it? I regret I
cannot shed any light, after all. :-(
Don't worry. Thanks for taking the time to inspect the ttyrec.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-01-26 18:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
[...]
Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Can you provide a link to the ttyrec? It may be possible to shed some
light.
Sure...
I got there, but please if asked for a link to a ttyrec provide a link to
the ttyrec, not to anything else.
Curious; what was the actual problem with that link? (Besides being a bit
longer than the one you extracted.)
It's not a link to the ttyrec; it's, as far as I could make out, a link to
a Webpage ttyrec player which encapsulates the ttyrec so as to show you it
in the player.
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
I dunno if there's any unfortunate message-suppression options you might
have set, but otherwise this does look like a bug, doesn't it? I regret I
cannot shed any light, after all. :-(
Don't worry. Thanks for taking the time to inspect the ttyrec.
I might go source digging (3.4.3 or 3.6.x?) but my spidey sense suggests
Pat Rankin may know the answer...
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Brieday, January.
Tomorrow will be Gouday, January.
Pat Rankin
2018-01-26 23:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Damerell
I might go source digging (3.4.3 or 3.6.x?) but my spidey sense suggests
Pat Rankin may know the answer...
Haven't a clue. Just a reminder, the ttyrec data is based on periodic
screen capture, not on keystrokes or other nethack activity, so can omit
things, especially if network lag stretches some events out and bunches
other events together.

(Janis has stated many times that he's playing 3.4.3 instead of 3.6.0.)
Janis Papanagnou
2018-01-27 00:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Rankin
Post by David Damerell
I might go source digging (3.4.3 or 3.6.x?) but my spidey sense suggests
Pat Rankin may know the answer...
Haven't a clue. Just a reminder, the ttyrec data is based on periodic
screen capture, not on keystrokes or other nethack activity, so can omit
things, especially if network lag stretches some events out and bunches
other events together.
I thought the ttyrec-recorder would intercept all keyboard control codes
to be able to always re-create an original image and just add a timestamp.

I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that I once wanted a small
scene from a long ttyrec and saw only deltas (because I missed the sync
point), but the deltas have been complete, or so it seemed. If, OTOH,
it's primarily time based - which would be quite a waste of ressources -
then this would only have been coincidence, of course.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-01-27 12:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Rankin
Post by David Damerell
I might go source digging (3.4.3 or 3.6.x?) but my spidey sense suggests
Pat Rankin may know the answer...
Haven't a clue. Just a reminder, the ttyrec data is based on periodic
screen capture, not on keystrokes or other nethack activity, so can omit
things, especially if network lag stretches some events out and bunches
other events together.
At the risk of invoking you then saying you're wrong, I don't think this
is so. I expect a ttyrec to be a capture of all the output to the terminal
- some of it may come close together, as with the appearance of the lich
and then of the possessions here, but it's all captured and with a
frame-by-frame playback one can see it all. Network lag might cause input
actions to bunch but again frame-by-frame playback will sort this out.

(I don't know if this was true of the old nh-recorder format, although I
think it was... but this ttyrec is a ttyrec, so to speak.)

Janis: can we see your nethackrc to verify there aren't oddball options
doing this? It seems a useful step before going bug hunting.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Gouday, January.
Tomorrow will be Chedday, January.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-01-27 12:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Damerell
Janis: can we see your nethackrc to verify there aren't oddball options
doing this? It seems a useful step before going bug hunting.
Sure, here it is...
https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/S/Stroller/Stroller.nh343rc

Janis
David Damerell
2018-01-29 18:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Janis: can we see your nethackrc to verify there aren't oddball options
doing this? It seems a useful step before going bug hunting.
Sure, here it is...
https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/S/Stroller/Stroller.nh343rc
Nothing in there seems applicable. This one is a mystery.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
Today is Stilday, January - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gorgonzoladay, January - a weekend.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-07-08 10:28:23 UTC
Permalink
[...] An arch-lich appeared adjacent. Instantly my inventory and all the
rest got displayed. Not even a 'touch of death' message or anything. [...]
Half a year later again such a strange message display behavour...

The endgame log says turncount was 5800 moves and that this happened:

Latest messages
The pony misses the quasit.
The pony misses the quasit.
The quasit hits!
The quasit misses.
The quasit bites!
The quasit hits!
The quasit hits!
The quasit bites!
The pony misses the quasit.
The pony misses the quasit.
The pony hits the quasit.
The pony bites the quasit.
The quasit hits the pony.
The quasit's sting was poisoned!
The quasit misses the pony.
The quasit misses the pony.
You miss the quasit.
The quasit hits!
The quasit's sting was poisoned!
The poison was deadly...

In game I just saw me dying with these messages (copied from the ttyrec):

@T:5796
The pony misses the quasit.
The pony misses the quasit. The pony misses the quasit.--More--
@T:5797 HP:44(44)
The pony misses the quasit.
The pony misses the quasit. The pony misses the quasit.
The pony misses the quasit. The pony misses the quasit.--More--
@T:5798 HP:43(44) - quasit with one square distance away
The pony misses the quasit. The pony misses the quasit.--More--
@T:5799 HP:42(44) - quasit adjacent
HP:40(42)
HP:39(42)
You miss the quasit. The quasit hits!--More--
HP:0(42)

(no other messages) My encumbrance status was burdened.

The analysis in Jan 2018 had not revealed any explanation, maybe it's an
effect of some patch active in NAO's NH-343 ? - Just a vague speculation.

Here I just want to ask whether other folks here have experienced similar
effects (with either of NH-343 or NH-361).

Janis
David Damerell
2018-07-09 20:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
The analysis in Jan 2018 had not revealed any explanation, maybe it's an
effect of some patch active in NAO's NH-343 ? - Just a vague speculation.
I'm starting to think it must be, although that's more just that we
haven't ruled it out yet and it's all that can be thought of. :-(
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
And now, a seemingly inexplicable shot of a passing train.
Today is Second Saturday, Presuary - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Second Sunday, Presuary - a weekend.
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