Discussion:
preliminary priest report
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Yosemite Sam
2018-06-21 14:11:52 UTC
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So far, due to the priest starting with only a handful of greens for food, beginner priests should start chaotic because they can eat their pet.

Lucky priests begin with stone to meat spell which is an alternative.
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-21 18:38:21 UTC
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Post by Yosemite Sam
So far, due to the priest starting with only a handful of greens for food, beginner priests should start chaotic because they can eat their pet.
Lucky priests begin with stone to meat spell which is an alternative.
Hello. Priest expert here.

Wait until you're just past hungry and are weak, then pray. It'll satiate you and you don't use up food. The prayer timeout is very short.

I try not to play priest with my pet and/or come back later. More food can't have the pet eating your goddamned food all the time.

Chaotic priest sac weapons/altar gifts are garbage. Lawful or Neutral priests are easier. Priests NEED a good melee weapon, they have no offensive spells and no missile weapon skill to speak of, so you'll finde neutral and lawful priests way easier.

Priests have a huge dilemma in sokobon vs. mines. Remember, at bottom of mines there is a 1/6 chance of a magic lamp, and with holy water you can bless it and get a wish immediately for DSM. That will make your game much, much easier, you'll kill more monsters and eat like a king. There's also armor in mines end which priests desparately need. You can also eat gnomes and dwarves (if neutral), which is why I believe neutral priest is the easiest.

On the other hand priests have very little food so sokobon is very attractive. Sokobon also has the potential for quite a few wands, and priests need those as again: no missile weapon.

Whether to go to mines also depends on other things: do you have a light source? Do you have a pickaxe? If you have a pickaxe you can dig down to gnometown, get a candle or lamp and come back up using a light source. Are the levels lit or dark?

I usually do the first level of mines just to eat a few corpses and get to level 3, see if someone drops a pickaxe or lantern. Also to see if the level is lit, if there are signs of a bones file etc.

It's possible all your levels are lit all the way to gnometown, or the first one is dark and the rest are lit. Or you may see the staircase nearby.

If it looks bad I do sokoban and come back. Don't wander around in the dark for 4 levels, you're going to get mauled.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-06-21 19:28:35 UTC
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Post by m***@yahoo.com
Priests have a huge dilemma in sokobon vs. mines. Remember, at bottom of
mines there is a 1/6 chance of a magic lamp, [...]
Where did you get that from? Two of the three mines-end levels have just
two random tools each, and the third variant has no random tools defined.
There are a couple completely random items, but you can't count on them
becoming magic lamps. The mine-town levels with the lighting stores is of
course another issue; I suppose you meant mine-town for a chance to get a
magic lamp.[*]

Janis

[*] The usual anecdote from a recent game; found two magic lamps there,
one was even blessed. But got no wish from it. Kept the other magic lamp
for permanent light.
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-23 00:17:40 UTC
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I dunno I read it a long time ago. And this is for 3.4.3 I think there are less magic lamps in 3.6.1?

Keeping the magic lamp as a permanent light source is an expert move, not for beginners in my opinion.

Also it depends on your game. If you have magic mapping lights less of an issue. Magic lamp is really awesome in the Astral plane though because you don't get the "you can't see where to land" from your jump spell or boots of jumping.

If you're not a spellcaster (you don't have the light spell, you don't have magic mapping) the magic lamp as a light source is much more tempting.

There are other situations (monk with eyes of the overworld, or wishing for eyes of the overworld, which is like my FAVORITE artifact wish), where you wouldn't need a magic lamp.

In any case rubbing the lamp to get a wish as a lawful and wishing for the eyes of the overworld is an awesome play. You get magic resistance (that won't be stolen, because it's not your artifact), X ray vision (even better than magic lamp) and enlightenment.

Hey Janis are you SURE that the jump spell works on astral? Like 2000% sure? I seem to remember it not working? I have the light spell so I'm covered on that front.

Also does haste stack with "regular" speed from a wand? Or do you need blessed potion of speed?

Thanks
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-23 00:22:05 UTC
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Post by m***@yahoo.com
I dunno I read it a long time ago. And this is for 3.4.3 I think there are less magic lamps in 3.6.1?
Keeping the magic lamp as a permanent light source is an expert move, not for beginners in my opinion.
Also it depends on your game. If you have magic mapping lights less of an issue. Magic lamp is really awesome in the Astral plane though because you don't get the "you can't see where to land" from your jump spell or boots of jumping.
If you're not a spellcaster (you don't have the light spell, you don't have magic mapping) the magic lamp as a light source is much more tempting.
There are other situations (monk with eyes of the overworld, or wishing for eyes of the overworld, which is like my FAVORITE artifact wish), where you wouldn't need a magic lamp.
In any case rubbing the lamp to get a wish as a lawful and wishing for the eyes of the overworld is an awesome play. You get magic resistance (that won't be stolen, because it's not your artifact), X ray vision (even better than magic lamp) and enlightenment.
Hey Janis are you SURE that the jump spell works on astral? Like 2000% sure? I seem to remember it not working? I have the light spell so I'm covered on that front.
Also does haste stack with "regular" speed from a wand? Or do you need blessed potion of speed?
Thanks
One last quesiton Janis, If you don't have helm of alignment change, then shouldn't you proceed from the altars Right, middle, Left or Left, Middle, Right?

If you do the middle altar first, won't it end up being:

1. Fight a rider to middle
2. Fight a rider leaving the middle temple.
3. Fight a rider going to left temple.
4. Fight a rider leaving left temple.
5. Fight a rider while passing the middle temple.
6. Fight a rider going to the right temple.

Whereas if you proceed left to right or right to left it will be:

1. Fight a rider going to left temple.
2. Fight a rider leaving left temple.
3. Fight a rider going to middle temple.
4. Fight a rider leaving middle temple.
5. Fight a rider going to right temple.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-06-23 09:01:03 UTC
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Post by m***@yahoo.com
One last quesiton Janis, If you don't have helm of alignment change, then
shouldn't you proceed from the altars Right, middle, Left or Left, Middle,
Right?
My decision of the path I choose is (mainly only) influenced by the actual
riders; I visit Famine first. Second choice depends; if I have enough death
charges (or if I can cast cure sickness at 0% fail) I visit Pestilence then.
But if I am very buff (lots of HPs) and have powerful melee weaponry (highly
enchanted two-weaponing or enchanted multi-shot missile weapons), or conflict,
I often prefer Death. Other sometimes relevant factors are, e.g., the monster
population; (usually as a non-Lawful) I avoid paths where I'll meet Archons,
titans, or (unless genocided) mind-flayers. My rules of thumb; avoid contact
(to avoid curses from priests, and player-characters [optionally with Vorpal
Blade]) by jumping, if possible weaken the foes (conflict), remove foes from
your path (wand of teleport; in all my games I always had at least one wand,
but preferable I go with as many wands as possible, one wand kept at (0:1)
charge so that I can break it in case I am surrounded by monster hordes),
use magic missile spells where applicable or physical ranged missile attacks.

Janis
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-23 22:58:31 UTC
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OK cool. I have +7 firebrand and I notice that all riders are resistant to fire. Should I use +6 regular Mace on expert instead?"

Magic Missile is a viable option, I have the spell on 0%, and wands of magic missile are viable as well I have a bunch of these.

No wand of death or wand of teleport yet.

I also don't have ring of free action to do the potion paralysis trick on Orcus.

Orcus is my main fear now. He could summon another demon and then summon demogorgon. That's happened in the past. In the past I was able to fight demogorgon, but now it's just not viable. I'm just not strong enough. :(

Other option is to continue sacrificing until I get another artifact weapon.

Now that I think of it, the other artifact weapons I could get won't be much help against the riders: magicbane doesn't do enough damage, frost brand: riders resistant to cold.

Werebane, dragonbane, etc. nope nope nope. Mojo: riders are resistant to shock.

So the best weapon for neutrals against the riders would be Vorpal. Vorpal retains it's to hit bonus against the riders (firebrand and frostbrand as well as the other banes don't).

Also ensures that a stray person on astral won't have vorpal if I already have it.

I can get vorpal by being crowned so I guess I should do that!
Janis Papanagnou
2018-06-24 07:32:41 UTC
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Post by m***@yahoo.com
OK cool. I have +7 firebrand and I notice that all riders are resistant to
fire. Should I use +6 regular Mace on expert instead?"
On large monsters your Expert +6 mace deals 11.5 damage, and your Basic
+7 Firebrand deals 13.5 (i.e. without fire damage; double that value for
non-fireresistant monsters).
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Magic Missile is a viable option, I have the spell on 0%, and wands of
magic missile are viable as well I have a bunch of these.
I don't use wands of magic missile in an advanced game; my impression
is that they deal far too few damage. Spell damage is depending on your
experience level, the higher the better.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
No wand of death or wand of teleport yet.
Try to get Orcus' wand fully charged.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
I also don't have ring of free action to do the potion paralysis trick on Orcus.
Orcus is my main fear now. He could summon another demon and then summon
demogorgon. That's happened in the past. In the past I was able to fight
demogorgon, but now it's just not viable. I'm just not strong enough. :(
With Orcus (to get his wand intact) I try to get hands on a cockatrice
corpse to stone him (gloves are required). In Gehennom I let c'trices
alife, and once I reach Orcus town and explored all the region but his
living room I go back (and up) to find a cockatrice within reach (three
levels, or so, so that it doesn't decay). Then dig his room (avoiding a
straight line to prevent him zapping) and let him see you so that he'll
come adjacent. (A prepared Elbereth will make him abstain from a zap
when he's adjacent.) If there's no c-corpse available I dig down past
Orcus (after having raided the rest of his level) to find a cocktrice
the levels below. Then same stoning procedure while entering his level
from below with the wielded c-corpse. Otherwise I engrave an Elbereth
on the upstairs to his level, climb up (one zap from Orcus might come),
and climb down again so that he follows you. If you don't happen to be
on the stairs and on your Elbereth square, you have to engrave another
E-word until Orcus leaves the stairs (summonings may happen, I think).
Enter the stairs square as soon as possible. It can happen that Orcus
will be on the stairs if you climb up, and that you arrive adjacent to
him. Then engrave the E-word and hit him so that he leaves his place
fleeing to the upstairs. You can enter the downstairs, go down, wait
some time until the period of Orcus being scared passed, climb up again
and wait until he comes adjacent again, lure him down and continue (as
written above) to kill him on the prepared E-square while you're on the
stairs. It's crucial that Orcus is not scared (neither from your attacks
nor from the E-word) when you want to lure him down; he won't follow you
while scared.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Other option is to continue sacrificing until I get another artifact weapon.
The +7 Firebrand is an excellent weapon with 23/27 average damage on
non-fireresistant small/large monsters (at Basic proficiency already).
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Now that I think of it, the other artifact weapons I could get won't be
much help against the riders: magicbane doesn't do enough damage, frost
brand: riders resistant to cold.
Avoid contact with the riders, use highly enchanted missile weapons, or
the spell of magic missile, and conflict. Jump around them.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Werebane, dragonbane, etc. nope nope nope. Mojo: riders are resistant to shock.
So the best weapon for neutrals against the riders would be Vorpal. Vorpal
retains it's to hit bonus against the riders (firebrand and frostbrand as
well as the other banes don't).
I thought that you *do* have a to-hit bonus with wour Firebrand; with your
enchantments it would be +10. At that stage you wouldn't miss anyway, I'd
say, if you haven't completely spoiled your luck or something.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Also ensures that a stray person on astral won't have vorpal if I already have it.
That's indeed an aspect to consider. Paranoid I sometimes take a bullwhip
to Astral to be able to unarm a player character wielding the Vorpal Blade.
(But I often miss the wielding of a player character in the many messages
I get there.)
Post by m***@yahoo.com
I can get vorpal by being crowned so I guess I should do that!
Janis
forbincol
2018-06-25 23:57:55 UTC
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I play priests all the time. The magic missile spell if you know it and are a high level is very effective against the Riders. Janis' advice regarding Orcus is solid. I always dig down from his level, hopefully find a 'c' corpse and then go up the stairs wielding it. But I don't move! There are pit traps. I just stay where i am and stone him, and you can get the death wand (after chipping the statue) with a lot of charges.
With no corpse, I use the same strategy of digging down, going up the stairs and then going down when he is next to me. He'll follow and now you are on the upstair where he wants to go to heal.
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-27 21:05:14 UTC
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Post by forbincol
I play priests all the time. The magic missile spell if you know it and are a high level is very effective against the Riders. Janis' advice regarding Orcus is solid. I always dig down from his level, hopefully find a 'c' corpse and then go up the stairs wielding it. But I don't move! There are pit traps. I just stay where i am and stone him, and you can get the death wand (after chipping the statue) with a lot of charges.
With no corpse, I use the same strategy of digging down, going up the stairs and then going down when he is next to me. He'll follow and now you are on the upstair where he wants to go to heal.
Great strategy! Thanks for this!

Janis Papanagnou
2018-06-23 08:45:47 UTC
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Post by m***@yahoo.com
I dunno I read it a long time ago. And this is for 3.4.3 I think there are
less magic lamps in 3.6.1?
(We are from the few players who both still play NH-343, so my comments
apply primarily to that release. I haven't heard that NH-36x is more
stingy on magic lamps, but frankly, I don't know.)
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Keeping the magic lamp as a permanent light source is an expert move, not
for beginners in my opinion.
From what I read I'd say you are an expert, aren't you?
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Hey Janis are you SURE that the jump spell works on astral? Like 2000%
sure?
No, just 100% sure. :-) The marvellous thing with the spell is that you
can even jump burdened (which is really an issue for me).
Post by m***@yahoo.com
I seem to remember it not working? I have the light spell so I'm
covered on that front.
Jumping works if you see your landing place. It might not work if you try
to make a kights move and a monster is in the way. Actually you can rely
even on that if you know the exact rules for that case; Pat explained it
here a couple months ago. If monsters are in between I only rely on free
orthogonal or diagonal jumping paths. Of course, your fail-rate should be
sufficiently low.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Also does haste stack with "regular" speed from a wand? Or do you need
blessed potion of speed?
I can just tell what I do; preferred option is speed boots, otherwise
normal speed increase, e.g. from a wand, or from eating a quantum mechanic
while not speedy. The haste self spell (which I don't use) stacks only,
I think, WRT its duration, not with the speed factor. That's why some
players here reported to prefer (while unburdened) jumping boots and speed
spell. I wouldn't use/carry potions of speed because they are quite heavy
(and I use these for alchemy anyway).

Janis
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