Discussion:
[slashem] Monk strategy (armor, quest, etc.)
(too old to reply)
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-09 12:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Due to the effect (in Slashem) that you get arbitrary artifacts
when sacrifying my monk had been provided with a lot of artifact
armor but no artifact weapon for a very long time. Thus all the
enchant weapon scrolls were stashed unused and he used only martial
arts, as the role is designed for, and became Grand Master. Usually
(in vanilla) I go for a good melee weapon and abandon martial arts
as soon as possible. Once luck is maximized I also wear dragon scale
mail for MR. (My current options would be to switch Deluder for a
cloak of MR or to wield Magicbane.)

Now, after having been around dlvl:25, completed the mines with a
bones level where a former samurai of mine left Perseus' Wallet,
which was desperately desired since there was no bag of holding
anywhere along my route, my monk is at a point where the question
of body armor becomes prominent.

Is body armor in Slashem implemented with the same restrictions
as in Nethack, so that I can reverse genocide gray dragons to get
dragon scale mail and wear them, or is there something special
to consider? And how about the quest; my approach would be the
same that I regularly did in vanilla NH, to build a boulder fort
at the quest goal level and try to kill the nemesis with darts.
Will that work in Slashem or is there something else to consider?

One more question; as my monk advanced levels I saw that he's got
martial art fighting proficiencies. Any suggestions about using
those? (When to use them? Against which targets? Etc.)
Name Level Status
a - pummel 12 Prepared
b - air dash 12 Prepared
c - chained blitz 12 Prepared
d - chi strike 11 Prepared
e - chi healing 9 Prepared
f - elemental fist 7 Prepared
g - draw energy 5 Prepared
h - ground slam 3 Prepared
i - ward against flame 2 Prepared

Thanks!

Janis
wumpus
2018-09-10 18:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Howdy,
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Due to the effect (in Slashem) that you get arbitrary artifacts
when sacrifying my monk had been provided with a lot of artifact
armor but no artifact weapon for a very long time. Thus all the
enchant weapon scrolls were stashed unused and he used only martial
arts, as the role is designed for, and became Grand Master. Usually
(in vanilla) I go for a good melee weapon and abandon martial arts
as soon as possible. Once luck is maximized I also wear dragon scale
mail for MR. (My current options would be to switch Deluder for a
cloak of MR or to wield Magicbane.)
I've never played a monk in vanilla. And I'm not sure I've ever
intentionally struck an enemy with a melee weapon as a monk in Slash'EM.
So I don't really have any answers or opinions on armor or weapons.
Post by Janis Papanagnou
One more question; as my monk advanced levels I saw that he's got
martial art fighting proficiencies. Any suggestions about using
those? (When to use them? Against which targets? Etc.)
Name Level Status
a - pummel 12 Prepared
b - air dash 12 Prepared
c - chained blitz 12 Prepared
d - chi strike 11 Prepared
e - chi healing 9 Prepared
f - elemental fist 7 Prepared
g - draw energy 5 Prepared
h - ground slam 3 Prepared
i - ward against flame 2 Prepared
To me, this is what monk is all about. Pummel gives you multiple
strikes at once (at a cost in power). Chi strike hits hard. Chained
blitz - once you master the interface - is your main takedown vehicle,
capable of bringing down serious threats in a single blitz (usually,
in my case, composed of chi strike or elemental fist pummeling, possibly
terminated in a ground slam). Note that blitzing only 'uses up' the
blitz - not the components of the blitz, so you have more uses than you
may think.

The others are like utility spells. Air dash is a jump substitute,
chi healing is temporary regeneration, draw energy is the wizard
technique for a minor power boost. The wards are pretty useless -
unless they're not, because you don't have any other solution and you
need one right now.

There are few things more satisfying than one-shotting a Demon Lord and
leaving him in a Demon Lord-shaped crater.

Hope that helps,
Alex
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-10 19:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by wumpus
I've never played a monk in vanilla. And I'm not sure I've ever
intentionally struck an enemy with a melee weapon as a monk in Slash'EM.
Meanwhile I've got that +7 Sword of Justice and hitting with it is fine
(and probably more useful when used with silver hating monsters), but it
doesn't compare with (plain, without technique, but Expert) martial arts
that deals an average of 30 points damage.
Post by wumpus
So I don't really have any answers or opinions on armor or weapons.
(Still interested in the armor penalty part, so if anyone knows, I'd
be interested. But maybe I just spend a wish to try out dragon scales.)

(I've also seen that wearing a shield will reduce AC; there's really
a lot of new behaviour in Slashem (compared to Nethack); I like it.)
Post by wumpus
Post by Janis Papanagnou
martial art fighting proficiencies. Any suggestions about using
To me, this is what monk is all about. Pummel gives you multiple
strikes at once (at a cost in power). Chi strike hits hard. Chained
blitz - once you master the interface - is your main takedown vehicle,
capable of bringing down serious threats in a single blitz (usually,
in my case, composed of chi strike or elemental fist pummeling, possibly
terminated in a ground slam).
Sounds interesting, thanks! It seems it's worth to have some test bed,
like a zoo, to check out and see the effects all those techniques.
Post by wumpus
Note that blitzing only 'uses up' the
blitz - not the components of the blitz, so you have more uses than you
may think.
Hmm.. - this sounds that new to me that I have no idea what to think in
the first place, let alone any special applications. ;-)
Post by wumpus
The others are like utility spells. Air dash is a jump substitute,
chi healing is temporary regeneration, draw energy is the wizard
technique for a minor power boost. The wards are pretty useless -
unless they're not, because you don't have any other solution and you
need one right now.
There are few things more satisfying than one-shotting a Demon Lord and
leaving him in a Demon Lord-shaped crater.
Wait! Which technique was it that is that effective to achieve that?
Post by wumpus
Hope that helps,
Yes, thanks!

Janis
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-10 20:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by wumpus
Post by Janis Papanagnou
martial art fighting proficiencies
To me, this is what monk is all about.
I was just visiting Vecna, and couldn't hit her with Grand Master martial
arts. In the Wiki I read "one does need a +4 weapon to damage him at all".
Playing monks, how do you tackle Vecna; will those martial arts techniques
be effective where "plain" martial arts have been completely ineffective?

Janis
Pat Rankin
2018-09-11 01:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
I was just visiting Vecna, and couldn't hit her with Grand Master martial
arts. In the Wiki I read "one does need a +4 weapon to damage him at all".
Playing monks, how do you tackle Vecna; will those martial arts techniques
be effective where "plain" martial arts have been completely ineffective?
Lots of monsters require a +N weapon to be hit, where N ranges from
1 to 4 depending upon the type of monster. You've already faced many
of the lesser ones and didn't realize that switching to a +(N-1) weapon
would have made them become unhittable.

Every four experience levels makes martial arts behave like using an
additional +1 on a weapon for the purpose of hitting monsters who
require +N weapon or better to be hit. So at level 5, you hit as if using
a +1 weapon, at level 9, as if +2, and need to be level 17 (or higher) to
hit as if +4. I don't know whether it works the same for bare hands
when playing a role which doesn't have martial arts.

(I might have an off-by-error, or even worse, in the specific details here
but the general principle is accurate. I've never seen the relevant code,
just seen feedback about slash'em posted here. In this particular case,
I think I verified it in play but don't recall for sure. It's somewhat illogical
that being level 17 and using a +0 weapon hits as +0 but unwielding that
weapon makes you hit as if +4, but that's how it works. I'm fairly sure
that weapon skill is not a factor, otherwise you'd already be able to hit
arch-liches or whatever Vecna is.)
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-11 06:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Rankin
Post by Janis Papanagnou
I was just visiting Vecna, and couldn't hit her with Grand Master martial
arts.
Every four experience levels makes martial arts behave like using an
additional +1 on a weapon for the purpose of hitting monsters who
require +N weapon or better to be hit. So at level 5, you hit as if using
a +1 weapon, at level 9, as if +2, and need to be level 17 (or higher) to
hit as if +4.
Aha, okay, thanks! (It's hard to get XL it seems; the few wraiths I met
were not reliable to get XL, the potions are rare, and I needed the one
potion I had for alchemy since 75 maxHPs is not that much in Slashem.)
Post by Pat Rankin
(I might have an off-by-error, or even worse, in the specific details here
but the general principle is accurate. I've never seen the relevant code,
just seen feedback about slash'em posted here. In this particular case,
I think I verified it in play but don't recall for sure. It's somewhat illogical
that being level 17 and using a +0 weapon hits as +0 but unwielding that
weapon makes you hit as if +4, but that's how it works. I'm fairly sure
that weapon skill is not a factor, otherwise you'd already be able to hit
arch-liches or whatever Vecna is.)
Yes, it sounds illogical. I switched to the +7 Sword of Justice (doing
only little damage at Basic, 12 pts per hit, or so?), being able to kill
him at least slowly while standing on a burned Elbereth.

Janis

Loading...