Discussion:
YAAP Val Hum Fem Neu (3.6.1)
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Shaft
2018-09-28 21:07:01 UTC
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I have avenged my YASD Valk from last week. The next incarnation died to a particularly powerful dwarf. The incarnation after that ascended after encountering the bones file with this powerful dwarf.

Indeed, the dwarf was wearing highly enchanted armor, including +1 mithril. Minetown altar was co-aligned, which doesn't happen to me often. The bones file didn't have anything useful on the actual corpse, and not much of anything in the shops either. Mine's end was mostly unremarkable, except that a master mind flayer somehow appeared near the stairs on the way back. I zapped a wand at it which turned out to be teleportation. I rushed towards the stairs and quickly wondered if it was invisibility, but telepathy showed the flayer was indeed elsewhere on the level. Did Soko for an amulet of reflection.

One of the shops in the main dungeon was a wand shop and had a wand marked at over 600. Getting that kind of money proved difficult early on, but I scraped it together and bought the wand. I fired it at a nymph to see if it was death. Nope, wishing wand that turned out to be 0:3. 2 charging scrolls later, I knew this was going to end quickly or I would ascend. I wished up some GDSM, speed boots, and Frost Brand and saved the rest for later.

I explored the rest of the main dungeon, but nothing useful was found. On the last level was a large cockatrice nest. I also found a trap door which deposited me on Medusa's level with no method of getting back up. I begrudgingly used another wish for a ring of levitation. While I was at it, I went ahead and did the castle. I kept my stash in Minetown for a while, but wished up a BoH later and moved my stash to level 17. The castle was no problem and got another 0:2 wand. I dropped into the Valley to get my level up to 14 for the quest.

I did not find Ludios, but I scraped up enough money to get about 5 AC worth of blessings. I didn't want to put up with Surtur's shenanigans, so I just used a wand of death on him while he slept. I did find a tinning kit in the mines, so I tinned 30+ giants, mostly on the quest, including Surtur himself.

I never found any markers so I wished up two, as well as GoP. Of course I found another GoP right after I wished one up. I found genocide scrolls and 3 poly wands, but my scroll fodder was a bit low. Got enough to get my weapons(FB and a silber saber) up to +6. Had to write some enchant armor and magic mapping scrolls with the markers. After slumming around in the hell, I scrounged up enough gold to max my AC out at about -41 and found a magic lamp, which I used as a light source.

I was crowned on my 2nd prayer, but didn't gain any real effect except maybe sleep resistance and Vorpal. Found Giantslayer as well somewhere.

Side note: I have noted in 3.6.1 compared to 3.4 that alchemy explosion chances seem to be way up. I know that only up to a certain amount of potions(8?) can be done at once, but I swear my explosion rate was around 50%. I still got up to about 300HP. I don't know why I even do it, as I never lost more than about 15HP.

The rest of my kit I found, like free action and other useful rings, so I cleared out the wizard tower(no cockatrices this time), cleared the rest of the dungeon, and used cockatrice corpses responsibly by floating and not wielding it when I don't need to. I hear that most dangers are only applicable when wielding the corpse.

Vlad was no problem, and I found the vibrating square, so I death wand'd the wizard, left the tower, and levelported to the bottom. I think the first priest summoned a cockatrice, so I assume they were begging for me to slap them with it. The sanctum was cleared in a hurry, then left via a gain level potion. The wizard was visiting me way more often than I am used to, but the mysterious force was very kind. I grabbed my jewels and other important stuff from my stash on the way up.

Only issue I had was on the water plane. I genocided ';' - but the game was spawning new monsters, mostly elementals, but also a gremlin. *sigh* Should have genocided them while I was at it. I decided to not use conflict on Astral. Since I had already blown like 8 wishes, decided to just do it the easy way and wish up a chickatrice corpse. I am convinced this is one of the most well spent wishes. 1 turn kills on everything but the riders. Even acid potions and life saving amulets buy you only 1 more turn.

I switched to my normal weapons for the riders. Went left and had to kill Pestilence coming and going, as the altar was chaotic. The center was Death, which I killed once. Neither rider touched me. The center was neutral.

After ascending a wizard and a valk in 3.6.1, I can say that a few mechanics like alchemy make it a bit more challenging, and closing some loopholes makes it a little tougher, but once you get to a certain point, it is all relative. After finding that early wand, I was never in any real danger. Having MR seems to be the biggest boon to any of my characters because of poly traps and a few types of wands are nullified. Also, I like the variations for some of the maze-type levels between medusa and the castle, and below the valley. Still the mazes are just awful.

Both wizards and valks seem to be game breakingly powerful after the quest, just in different ways. Late game wizards might as well *be* in wizard mode. I may try a few more roles, but I may be ready for a variant, probably Slash Em.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-28 21:36:46 UTC
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Post by Shaft
Both wizards and valks seem to be game breakingly powerful after the quest,
just in different ways. [...]
Valkyries are very powerful even before the quest.
Post by Shaft
I may try a few more roles, but I may be ready for a variant, probably Slash Em.
It's certainly worth to try out some more roles in Nethack; I find Healers
and Tourists interesting (and challenging), and I also like playing Rogues
(also quite difficult), and Rangers and Samurai.

I cannot say anything about the specific Slash'em roles, beyond that Vampires
seem to be difficult. I decided to first play only the subset of NH roles
until I will have got more familiar with the variant specific challenges.

And congrats for your ascension!

Janis
Pat Rankin
2018-09-28 23:28:51 UTC
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Post by Shaft
Side note: I have noted in 3.6.1 compared to 3.4 that alchemy
explosion chances seem to be way up. I know that only up to
a certain amount of potions(8?) can be done at once, but I
swear my explosion rate was around 50%. [...]
The chance of an "alchemical explosion" when dipping one stack
of potions into another was 10% in 3.4.3 and is still 10% in 3.6.1.

If you're still gathering huge stacks but now splitting them to dip
in portions or re-dipping unaffected ones, you're performing more
potion-into-potion dips so have more opportunities for the 10%
explosion to occur. But nothing remotely like a five times increase
unless you're actually making five times as many dips.

When dipping potions of water, the whole stack is still affected.
When dipping yields non-magic potions, between 7 and the whole
stack will be affected. When dipping yields magic potions, between
3 and 8 will be affected. Excess potions are split into a separate
stack and remain as they were (not destroyed nor even diluted).

I think 3.6.0 yielded between 2 and 9 for both magic and non-magic,
non-water result, and didn't work as intended with larger stacks.
(IIRC, the chance to have 9 be affected kept going up (or maybe even
went down instead?), as the stack size increased beyond 9. In 3.6.1
for magic potion result, once the stack size is bigger than 8 the
chances stay the same as if it were 8.)
Post by Shaft
[...] The wizard was visiting me way more often than I am used
to, but the mysterious force was very kind. [...]
I'm pretty sure that the chances for both of those are also unchanged,
although unlike with potions, I haven't verified it.
Shaft
2018-09-29 00:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Rankin
Post by Shaft
Side note: I have noted in 3.6.1 compared to 3.4 that alchemy
explosion chances seem to be way up. I know that only up to
a certain amount of potions(8?) can be done at once, but I
swear my explosion rate was around 50%. [...]
The chance of an "alchemical explosion" when dipping one stack
of potions into another was 10% in 3.4.3 and is still 10% in 3.6.1.
I must be having the worst luck in the last 2 or 3 runs then. I'm still using the full stack to dip with the understanding that at most 8 will be affected. I never use cursed potions either. But no joke, I lost about every other attempt to make full healing potions.

I will be making some more runs with other characters, so I will see if my luck improves. Maybe I should record my attempts... I do recall that it was rare in 3.4.3 though.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-29 08:13:20 UTC
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Post by Shaft
The chance of an "alchemical explosion" when dipping one stack of potions
into another was 10% in 3.4.3 and is still 10% in 3.6.1.
I must be having the worst luck in the last 2 or 3 runs then. I'm still
using the full stack to dip with the understanding that at most 8 will be
affected. I never use cursed potions either. But no joke, I lost about
every other attempt to make full healing potions.
I am glad to hear that the RNG is not only targeting me at times with such
large series of bad luck. ;-)
Post by Shaft
I will be making some more runs with other characters, so I will see if my
luck improves. Maybe I should record my attempts... I do recall that it
was rare in 3.4.3 though.
It's just odds. (You had bad luck.)

Janis
David Damerell
2018-09-29 05:57:08 UTC
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Post by Shaft
One of the shops in the main dungeon was a wand shop and had a wand
marked at over 600. Getting that kind of money proved difficult early
on, but I scraped it together and bought the wand.
If you can live with the murder penalty, just pick it up and zap it - at
the shopkeeper, if you are asked for a direction. Better to have the
chance of the early WoW than to risk dying scraping up the gold.
Post by Shaft
Only issue I had was on the water plane. I genocided ';'
This is a waste. ; are no threat until Water and any number of common
items let you defeat them on Water.
Post by Shaft
I switched to my normal weapons for the riders. Went left and had to
kill Pestilence coming and going, as the altar was chaotic.
Always do Famine first; Famine's attack is a bad joke and they can be
WoDed.
Post by Shaft
Both wizards and valks seem to be game breakingly powerful after the
quest, just in different ways.
Valks can be long before that - admittedly in 3.4.3 but this Junethack I
was on D:3 having done the Mines and knowing perfectly well the next
remotely serious monster I'd see would be Rodney.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is First Brieday, September.
Tomorrow will be First Gouday, September.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-09-29 08:16:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Damerell
Post by Shaft
One of the shops in the main dungeon was a wand shop and had a wand
marked at over 600. Getting that kind of money proved difficult early
on, but I scraped it together and bought the wand.
If you can live with the murder penalty, just pick it up and zap it - at
the shopkeeper, if you are asked for a direction. Better to have the
chance of the early WoW than to risk dying scraping up the gold.
If he can afford to pay the usage fee.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-10-02 12:16:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
If you can live with the murder penalty, just pick it up and zap it - at
the shopkeeper, if you are asked for a direction. Better to have the
chance of the early WoW than to risk dying scraping up the gold.
If he can afford to pay the usage fee.
Nope - if it's wishing, wish for a wand of death.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is First Stilday, September - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gorgonzoladay, September - a weekend.
Shaft
2018-10-03 20:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
If you can live with the murder penalty, just pick it up and zap it - at
the shopkeeper, if you are asked for a direction. Better to have the
chance of the early WoW than to risk dying scraping up the gold.
If he can afford to pay the usage fee.
Nope - if it's wishing, wish for a wand of death.
--
Today is First Stilday, September - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gorgonzoladay, September - a weekend.
In a recent barbarian ascension(which coincidentally found the petrified corpse of my Valk friend), I was attacking a mimic in a shop with Cleaver and accidentally hit the shopkeeper. Rather than resort to murder, I simply zapped a digging wand downward, came back much later with some money and paid him off. If you have the means and want to avoid murder, just escape and come back later. I think chatting with him will offer 1000 gold with a 2/3 chance to pacify him, which can be done repeatedly. If you just stole from him, I think you can just pay the usage fee or whatever the stolen cost was. That being said, if you can't escape and you can't pay, wishing for a wand of death isn't a bad option. Not sure I would waste a wish on a digging wand or something like that. I like being able to pay them off because gold becomes trivial after a certain point.
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