Discussion:
Lucky with conflict
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Janis Papanagnou
2018-02-23 15:10:38 UTC
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A gnomish healer with ridiculous HP:601, AC:-41 managed to reach Astral.
One of the first encounters there was a player character that I decided
to teleport away. Continued taking the path to Pestilence (being a healer,
mind), where two player monsters were present. While me wearing conflict
those monsters quickly killed the high priest, but wait, also one of
these player characters got killed quickly (or even instantly?). A peek
into the message log with those countless messages confirmed that the
surviving monster was wielding the Vorpal Blade. If I hadn't noticed that
all my AC and HP and effort to reach there would probably have been void.

BTW, in the source code (endgame.des file) I don't see monster entries
for the player monsters; the only '@' are aligned priests. - Hmm..

Janis
Pat Rankin
2018-02-23 21:56:35 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
BTW, in the source code (endgame.des file) I don't see monster entries
Many special levels get extra details added by fixup_special() in mkmaze.c.
But the bit you're looking for is final_level() in do.c. It's called when you
arrive on the Astral level rather than when that level is created. (Actually
academic since that doesn't get created until you're in the process of
arriving there.) It calls a routine to create 3 to 6 fake players and then
calls another routine that decides whether you receive the guardian angel.
I think the latter bit is probably why it isn't part of fixup_special().
Yosemite Sam
2018-03-05 22:28:06 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
A gnomish healer with ridiculous HP:601, AC:-4
Are you fucking cheating?
Harold Hill
2018-03-07 16:16:32 UTC
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Post by Yosemite Sam
Post by Janis Papanagnou
A gnomish healer with ridiculous HP:601, AC:-4
Are you fucking cheating?
Sam, you may be unaware that healing potions, especially Full, and especially
Blessed, will increase base HP? It is not that hard to run it up to
a few hundred HP with some alchemy.

Heck, I had one game up over 3400 HP even without using alchemy. (OK,
it was long extinctionist game, but there was absolutely no cheating
involved.)
--
-Harold Hill
Janis Papanagnou
2018-03-07 20:36:55 UTC
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Post by Harold Hill
Post by Yosemite Sam
Post by Janis Papanagnou
A gnomish healer with ridiculous HP:601, AC:-4
Are you fucking cheating?
(Wow, I wouldn't have noticed that offencive worded post if it hadn't
been quoted by someone else. Obviously some very old killfile entry
removed that poster from my attention.)

If you are, beyond offences, seriously interested in the background of
those values I can provide some hints.

First of all, to clear that issue, cheating is not possible (for me)
because I am playing on the NAO server which lies outside of my control.
(Okay, you can use built-in behaviour that some consider cheating, like
pudding farming (which I normally don't do), or wraith luring for XL.
You can also run into bones levels with tons of potions, or bones from
a pudding farm; been there.)

HPs can be increased by various ways. Inspecting the NAO log record I
see that I was XL:30; you gain HPs when you increase levels, and I was
at max. Every further "level increase" will not increase your XL any
more but it will increase your maxHPs. Another standard is alchemy; I
collect heaps of potions of speed, healing, extra healing, gain energy,
do the alchemy, bless the stack and will get 8 HP per potion. A stack
of, say, 30 potions will provide 240 HPs.

Skimming through my list of games I see my top HP are ~650, ~620, ~600.
More typical values lie in the range of 240..360 HP.

Note also that I usually don't use up all my potions when ascending;
in the game I was reporting about here I still had 13 potions of full
healing in my bag which would have provided me 104 more HPs if I had
desired so.
Post by Harold Hill
Sam, you may be unaware that healing potions, especially Full, and especially
Blessed, will increase base HP? It is not that hard to run it up to
a few hundred HP with some alchemy.
Heck, I had one game up over 3400 HP even without using alchemy. (OK,
it was long extinctionist game, but there was absolutely no cheating
involved.)
Yep, or pudding farming, etc. - I suppose inspecting the NAO lists will
show a lot more players and entries like that.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-03-12 00:12:18 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
First of all, to clear that issue, cheating is not possible (for me)
because I am playing on the NAO server which lies outside of my control.
Or (as I'm sure you know) there have been some interesting cheats
involving inferring the state of the RNG and then acting in a way that
produces desired outcomes.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Saturday, March - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Sunday, March - a weekend.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-03-12 00:42:29 UTC
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Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
First of all, to clear that issue, cheating is not possible (for me)
because I am playing on the NAO server which lies outside of my control.
Or (as I'm sure you know) there have been some interesting cheats
involving inferring the state of the RNG and then acting in a way that
produces desired outcomes.
Frankly, no. I recall some discussion about suspected RNG anomalies, but
I don't recall (and personally don't know) of any (determinsitic or not)
actions that would produce reliably usable beneficial outcome.

(If you can tell me some keywords I'll google the archives.)

Janis
David Damerell
2018-03-12 14:50:59 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Or (as I'm sure you know) there have been some interesting cheats
involving inferring the state of the RNG and then acting in a way that
produces desired outcomes.
Frankly, no. I recall some discussion about suspected RNG anomalies, but
I don't recall (and personally don't know) of any (determinsitic or not)
actions that would produce reliably usable beneficial outcome.
(If you can tell me some keywords I'll google the archives.)
I think the usual trick was to arrange that item generation produced a
wand of wishing. On reflection, maybe this was done with manipulation of
game start time, but I _think_ there was at least one judicious
wall-bumping trick.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Saturday, March - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Sunday, March - a weekend.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-03-12 16:22:32 UTC
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Post by David Damerell
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by David Damerell
Or (as I'm sure you know) there have been some interesting cheats
involving inferring the state of the RNG and then acting in a way that
produces desired outcomes.
Frankly, no. I recall some discussion about suspected RNG anomalies, but
I don't recall (and personally don't know) of any (determinsitic or not)
actions that would produce reliably usable beneficial outcome.
(If you can tell me some keywords I'll google the archives.)
I think the usual trick was to arrange that item generation produced a
wand of wishing. On reflection, maybe this was done with manipulation of
game start time, but I _think_ there was at least one judicious
wall-bumping trick.
I see. I obviously missed that WoW start-time trick completely, but that
would be irrelevant for me being a NAO player. I do recall someone mention
to (I think) trigger clairvoyance by a turn count / wall bumping process.
Never bothered to understand and (mis-)use that effect, though.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-03-19 21:10:40 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
I see. I obviously missed that WoW start-time trick completely, but that
would be irrelevant for me being a NAO player.
It is, but it wasn't - NAO's patches include:
A patch to make RNG prediction harder

which unless I am very much mistaken was added after active exploitation
of RNG prediction. (FTAOD, of course I am not suggesting that you were
exploiting it, merely that you (with everyone else) had the opportunity.)
Post by Janis Papanagnou
I do recall someone mention
to (I think) trigger clairvoyance by a turn count / wall bumping process.
The (perfectly legitimate) turncount trick I know is the one about getting
a dead-Rodney effect within 12 turns of the invocation, so arrange to be
standing on the upstairs then.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is First Stilday, March - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gorgonzoladay, March - a weekend.
m***@yahoo.com
2018-06-23 08:17:33 UTC
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I once found a wand of wishing in the 1st level below minetown. I was playing a priest and wished for two blessed scrolls of charging, mojo, speed boots, wand of polymorph, sdsm +1, a fireproof cloak of magic resistance +1, and a blessed spellbook of identify.

That was the easiest ascension of my life.

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