Discussion:
Crowded Orcus' town and weight management
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Janis Papanagnou
2018-03-31 13:06:20 UTC
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The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, while my auto-pickup made me
stressed with loot from a former adventurer's remains at the same time.
After having finished all the immigration formalities (including the
necessary health care) I had a hard time trying to fix my weight issues;
enchanting and blessing stuff, doing some alchemy, and stashing spare
equipment. The Orb of Detection that I found in that heap made it not
easier to achieve the task. Lugging my loot to Orcus' residence - the
plan was to levelport to my lvl:2-stash to drop some of the unnecessary
stuff - I stumbled across another ghost. And this heap contained the
Orb of Fate, the second of those overly heavy quest artifacts; luckily
it evades my grasp so I need not care about solving this detail. (BTW,
the second ghost on that level was from a bot-player who managed to
reach thus far.)

Janis
jim in austin
2018-03-31 22:40:02 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, while my auto-pickup made me
stressed with loot from a former adventurer's remains at the same time.
After having finished all the immigration formalities (including the
necessary health care) I had a hard time trying to fix my weight issues;
enchanting and blessing stuff, doing some alchemy, and stashing spare
equipment. The Orb of Detection that I found in that heap made it not
easier to achieve the task. Lugging my loot to Orcus' residence - the
plan was to levelport to my lvl:2-stash to drop some of the unnecessary
stuff - I stumbled across another ghost. And this heap contained the
Orb of Fate, the second of those overly heavy quest artifacts; luckily
it evades my grasp so I need not care about solving this detail. (BTW,
the second ghost on that level was from a bot-player who managed to
reach thus far.)
I am not a fan of being burdened and avoid it except for the briefest of
periods. It degrades both my offense and defense. I maintain a single
stash located at or near a general store, an aligned altar and a pool. I
collect and curse every scroll of teleportation I encounter. My armor is
engineered for lightness and I almost always wear gauntlets of power. At
the first hint of being burdened, no matter how deep in Gehennom, I read
a scroll and return to determine beatification, identify, consolidate and
repair at my stash. I dump everything in my stash except my base explore
kit. Then back to Gehennom. Three scrolls per round trip. I always have a
surplus of cursed teleport scrolls before an ascension attempt...
Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-01 00:04:13 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
I am not a fan of being burdened and avoid it except for the briefest of
periods. It degrades both my offense and defense.
Another negative effect [of being stressed] is that you don't regenerate
your spell power. (Higher burden-levels even decrease your HPs.)
Post by jim in austin
[...] My armor is
engineered for lightness and I almost always wear gauntlets of power.
In the advanced game I also wear light armor, like dragon scales, speed
boots, etc., but I avoid gauntlets of power in some cases, e.g. if I need
to rely on spell casting, or (also) to avoid weight once I have 18/**. But
the boni of the GoP and the increase of carrying capacity are an advantage,
especially early game.
Post by jim in austin
At
the first hint of being burdened, no matter how deep in Gehennom, I read
a scroll and return to determine beatification, identify, consolidate and
repair at my stash. I dump everything in my stash except my base explore
kit. Then back to Gehennom. Three scrolls per round trip. I always have a
surplus of cursed teleport scrolls before an ascension attempt...
When it matters most (early/mid game) I usually don't seem to have enough
teleport scrolls to do that forth and back travelling on a regular basis.

Janis
jim in austin
2018-04-01 00:38:18 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
When it matters most (early/mid game) I usually don't seem to have enough
teleport scrolls to do that forth and back travelling on a regular basis.
Above Gehennom I will often just walk. It's not just about becoming
unburdened. It's also a chance to consolidate, identify and modify my
strategy. I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids. Everything else is considered item by
item. Is it useful? Is it potential conversion fodder? Is it something so
far unknown? Everything else though, I just leave it on the ground...
Jorgen Grahn
2018-04-01 07:08:38 UTC
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On Sun, 2018-04-01, jim in austin wrote:
...
Post by jim in austin
I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids. Everything else is considered item by
item. Is it useful? Is it potential conversion fodder? Is it something so
far unknown? Everything else though, I just leave it on the ground...
Sounds like my strategy in real life, except I rarely find any
thrown weapons ;-)

/Jorgen
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Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-01 07:15:59 UTC
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Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by jim in austin
I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids. Everything else is considered item by
item. Is it useful? Is it potential conversion fodder? Is it something so
far unknown? Everything else though, I just leave it on the ground...
Sounds like my strategy in real life, except I rarely find any
thrown weapons ;-)
LOL! - And you may be lucky that this is actually the case. ;-)

Janis
David Damerell
2018-04-02 12:43:19 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Above Gehennom I will often just walk. It's not just about becoming
unburdened. It's also a chance to consolidate, identify and modify my
strategy. I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids.
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is First Olethros, April - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gaiman, April - a public holiday.
jim in austin
2018-04-02 14:37:49 UTC
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Post by David Damerell
Post by jim in austin
Above Gehennom I will often just walk. It's not just about becoming
unburdened. It's also a chance to consolidate, identify and modify my
strategy. I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids.
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
Let me see if I can reconstruct the whack-a-mole I played with pickup_thrown
when it appeared. For pickup_thrown:true to function autopickup must be
true as well. If autopickup is true and no type is selected it defaults to
ALL, definitely not what I'm looking for. My kludge is to have $ as the
only selected type and occasionally purge myself with d$. If thrown was
instead a listed pickup_type or functioned independently from autopickup,
then no kludge would be necessary...
Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-02 15:23:48 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Post by David Damerell
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
Let me see if I can reconstruct the whack-a-mole I played with pickup_thrown
when it appeared. For pickup_thrown:true to function autopickup must be
true as well. If autopickup is true and no type is selected it defaults to
ALL, definitely not what I'm looking for. My kludge is to have $ as the
only selected type and occasionally purge myself with d$. If thrown was
instead a listed pickup_type or functioned independently from autopickup,
then no kludge would be necessary...
I once proposed (to no avail, though) to not toggle on/off but cycle through
auto-pickup: nothing, defined-types, all. (The reason was to temporarily be
able to pick up things lying on holes and trapdoors with a simple command.)
Maybe it would make sense to extend that proposal to cycle through: nothing,
pickup-exceptions/pickup-thrown, defined-types, all.

Janis
David Damerell
2018-04-03 13:38:54 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Post by David Damerell
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
Let me see if I can reconstruct the whack-a-mole I played with pickup_thrown
when it appeared. For pickup_thrown:true to function autopickup must be
true as well. If autopickup is true and no type is selected it defaults to
ALL, definitely not what I'm looking for. My kludge is to have $ as the
only selected type and occasionally purge myself with d$.
I think, subject to pickup_burden, I ~always want to autopickup potions,
so that difficulty doesn't arise.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Gaiman, April - a public holiday.
Tomorrow will be Second Potmos, April.
jim in austin
2018-04-03 14:11:26 UTC
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Post by David Damerell
Post by jim in austin
Post by David Damerell
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
Let me see if I can reconstruct the whack-a-mole I played with pickup_thrown
when it appeared. For pickup_thrown:true to function autopickup must be
true as well. If autopickup is true and no type is selected it defaults to
ALL, definitely not what I'm looking for. My kludge is to have $ as the
only selected type and occasionally purge myself with d$.
I think, subject to pickup_burden, I ~always want to autopickup potions,
so that difficulty doesn't arise.
I chose zormids for their light .01 weight and their single item type. Even
if I'm forgetful for a while they are unlikely to burden me and can all be
quickly dropped in a single motion. Far less a pain and error prone than
toggling autopickup on and off in an active ranged game...
jerk-o
2018-04-04 06:53:14 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Post by David Damerell
Post by jim in austin
Above Gehennom I will often just walk. It's not just about becoming
unburdened. It's also a chance to consolidate, identify and modify my
strategy. I'm also very particular about what I pick up. Other than thrown
weapons, I only pick up zorkmids.
Why pick up money once you have donated for protection to the practical
maximum?
Let me see if I can reconstruct the whack-a-mole I played with pickup_thrown
when it appeared. For pickup_thrown:true to function autopickup must be
true as well. If autopickup is true and no type is selected it defaults to
ALL, definitely not what I'm looking for. My kludge is to have $ as the
only selected type and occasionally purge myself with d$. If thrown was
instead a listed pickup_type or functioned independently from autopickup,
then no kludge would be necessary...
Why not just set the pickup types to Iron Ball, and make an exception for Iron
Ball?
jim in austin
2018-04-04 15:52:53 UTC
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Post by jerk-o
Why not just set the pickup types to Iron Ball, and make an exception for
Iron Ball?
Doh! Works like a charm. Thanks!
Zork Ringmasters
2018-04-02 17:17:17 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Post by Janis Papanagnou
The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, while my auto-pickup made me
stressed with loot from a former adventurer's remains at the same time.
After having finished all the immigration formalities (including the
necessary health care) I had a hard time trying to fix my weight issues;
enchanting and blessing stuff, doing some alchemy, and stashing spare
equipment. The Orb of Detection that I found in that heap made it not
easier to achieve the task. Lugging my loot to Orcus' residence - the
plan was to levelport to my lvl:2-stash to drop some of the unnecessary
stuff - I stumbled across another ghost. And this heap contained the
Orb of Fate, the second of those overly heavy quest artifacts; luckily
it evades my grasp so I need not care about solving this detail. (BTW,
the second ghost on that level was from a bot-player who managed to
reach thus far.)
I am not a fan of being burdened and avoid it except for the briefest of
periods. It degrades both my offense and defense. I maintain a single
stash located at or near a general store, an aligned altar and a pool. I
collect and curse every scroll of teleportation I encounter. My armor is
engineered for lightness and I almost always wear gauntlets of power. At
the first hint of being burdened, no matter how deep in Gehennom, I read
What does the pool do for your stash?
G-Mon
2018-04-03 02:48:40 UTC
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Post by Zork Ringmasters
[...] I maintain a single stash located at or near a general store, an
aligned altar and a pool.
What does the pool do for your stash?
My guess is it provides a (relatively) safe place to blank junk scrolls and
dilute junk potions.
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Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-03 08:16:07 UTC
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Post by G-Mon
Post by Zork Ringmasters
[...] I maintain a single stash located at or near a general store, an
aligned altar and a pool.
What does the pool do for your stash?
My guess is it provides a (relatively) safe place to blank junk scrolls and
dilute junk potions.
Both are necessary to maximize outcome for certain processes, e.g. alchemy;
you once only(!) dilute your potion of extra healing so that they merge
with the diluted extra healing that you get from alchemy (healing + speed).
The altar serves as normalizer so that BUC-identified items stack with the
unidentified or morphed (alchemy, turning, etc.) items, so these dungeon
features work together well.

In that context it is noteworthy that you need some luck to get a good
dungeon layout from the RNG that supports such dungeon features. Gehennom
is inherently sparse in that respect; altars only at the entry (Valley)
and at Orcus' town, just one fountain at Juiblex' lair. (Not that much an
issue if you have water walking.)

Janis
Pat Rankin
2018-03-31 23:09:21 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, while my auto-pickup made me
stressed with loot from a former adventurer's remains at the same time.
Perhaps you should toggle auto-pickup off when moving to a spot
with unknown contents. Or finally switch to the current version.
3.6.0 allows 'm>' (and 'm<') to traverse stairs without auto-pickup
at the destination.

Prefixing '>' with 'm' when deliberately ending controlled levitation
(blessed potion, skilled spell, or invoked artifact) also avoids auto-
pickup while landing.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-03-31 23:55:33 UTC
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Post by Pat Rankin
[ auto-pickup while descending stairs ]
Perhaps you should toggle auto-pickup off when moving to a spot
with unknown contents. Or finally switch to the current version.
3.6.0 allows 'm>' (and 'm<') to traverse stairs without auto-pickup
at the destination.
At known places I already use m> and m< in NH-343 (NAO); e.g. in
Sokoban, when I drop items at the stairs (so that monsters can't
pick them up) to get unburdened while doing the next higher level.

In unknown places I'm obviously lacking the discipline to do that.

Another option would be to decrease the pickup-confirmation level
('pickup_burden') which I have somewhere beyond burdened to match
my way of playing. (That configuration certainly has drawbacks.)

Janis
Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-01 00:13:26 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Another option would be to decrease the pickup-confirmation level
('pickup_burden') which I have somewhere beyond burdened to match
my way of playing. (This configuration certainly has drawbacks.)
The default value (NH-343) that I use is a confirmation beyond 'stressed'.
I've just changed my configuration to confirm beyond 'burdened' now; I'll
see whether it makes things better.

Janis
Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-02 17:26:12 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by Janis Papanagnou
Another option would be to decrease the pickup-confirmation level
('pickup_burden') which I have somewhere beyond burdened to match
my way of playing. (This configuration certainly has drawbacks.)
The default value (NH-343) that I use is a confirmation beyond 'stressed'.
I've just changed my configuration to confirm beyond 'burdened' now; I'll
see whether it makes things better.
Hmm.. - I've tested that configuration a bit but it doesn't work well for
my purpose. While I have now a bit more of safety in situations I posted
in my OP upthread, every inventory handling (between bag of holding, open
inventory, floor) gets cumbersome. - Still undecided what to do.

Janis
Pat Rankin
2018-04-01 03:59:38 UTC
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At known places I already use m> and m< in NH-343 (NAO); [...]
It turns out that the 'm' move-without-autopickup prefix for '>' and '<'
was already present in 3.4.3 (rather than an interface enhancement
by nethack.alt.org that was adopted by 3.6.0). I vaguely remember
when someone requested it and I'm pretty sure that I'm the one who
implemented it, but I didn't realize how long ago that must have been....
David Damerell
2018-04-02 12:44:17 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Another option would be to decrease the pickup-confirmation level
('pickup_burden') which I have somewhere beyond burdened to match
my way of playing. (That configuration certainly has drawbacks.)
That's what I was going to say - it wasn't the RNG that caught you out
here.
--
David Damerell <***@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is First Olethros, April - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gaiman, April - a public holiday.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-05-13 13:14:40 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Another option would be to decrease the pickup-confirmation level
('pickup_burden') which I have somewhere beyond burdened to match
my way of playing. (That configuration certainly has drawbacks.)
Since the previous discussion 6 weeks ago I've reduced my pickup_burden
confirmation level[*][**]; I'm not satisfied with the behaviour, though.
The positive effect of the described rare case[**] is overcompensated by
the IME negative UI effect that common inventory management will prompt
you in the mid of displaying lists that you intended to pick up or take
out of containers; often I have to re-select the whole list because of
the [default] 'no'-confirmation that pops up in the mid of that process.

If I'd have a choice I'd decouple auto-pickup from intentional pick-ups;
either let 'pickup_burden' become 'auto-pickup_burden' and leave all
intentional pickups unconfirmed, or provide two independent options so
that the user is free to choose different settings.[***]

A related question; I've seen some variants show weight in {...} braces.
A quick skim through the new Guidebook seem to indicated that this isn't
(yet) available in NH-36x; is there a reason why? (I'm just curious, but
it's also related to the pickup UI-issue, since the former might affect
the latter in a positive way.)

Janis

[*] OPTIONS=autopickup,pickup_burden:B,pickup_types:$?!="/

[**] In the first place to avoid the issue of getting stressed when
descending stairs while there's auto-pick items and monsters adjacent.

[***] My personally preferred setting would be confirm with auto-pickup
getting beyond burdened and with intentional pickup beyond stressed.
Janis Papanagnou
2018-04-17 21:51:30 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, [...]
My current chaotic priest was taking the stairs down to dlvl:45...
Hello, Yeenoghu! How are you, Demogorgon? - Again that demon combo?!
(I suppose I found yet another late game bones level. Let's see who
it is this time...)

Janis
Janis Papanagnou
2018-05-19 22:28:13 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
Post by Janis Papanagnou
The RNG is testing me! Burdened as usual I descended in Gehennom to a
level which turned out to be Orcus' town. At the stairs I got welcomed
immediately by Demogorgon and Yeenoghu, [...]
My current chaotic priest was taking the stairs down to dlvl:45...
Hello, Yeenoghu! How are you, Demogorgon? - Again that demon combo?!
[...]
This is really weird; my current barbarian dug down to Gehennom dlvl:40
and met, guess who, again Demogorgon and Yeenoghu. It seems these demons
meet there regularily once every month.

Janis
jim in austin
2018-05-20 00:17:30 UTC
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Post by Janis Papanagnou
This is really weird; my current barbarian dug down to Gehennom dlvl:40
and met, guess who, again Demogorgon and Yeenoghu. It seems these demons
meet there regularly once every month.
It's a welcome home party and you're the guest of honor...
Janis Papanagnou
2018-05-20 08:09:26 UTC
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Post by jim in austin
Post by Janis Papanagnou
This is really weird; my current barbarian dug down to Gehennom dlvl:40
and met, guess who, again Demogorgon and Yeenoghu. It seems these demons
meet there regularly once every month.
It's a welcome home party and you're the guest of honor...
LOL. A guest of honor that gets stunned and immediately ill; obviously not
the sort of honor to strive for. ;-)

In this game handling the demon combo was a bit more demanding since I did
not land on the upstairs, and it was a non-teleport level (Orcus' town,
a common place where you have a good chance to meet these demons which had
obviously been summoned from Orcus who was already dead in this case though).

Again it had been a bones level of that Valkyrie bot "we6jbo9" who is quite
successful reaching far in that game (and occasionally even ascend).

Janis

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